merej
New Member
Have you ever had one of those days when something just seems to be trying to tell you somebody?
Posts: 26
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Post by merej on Nov 8, 2020 8:41:46 GMT
When I heard the news that AP had called the race for Joe Biden tears actually fell from my eyes! Now hopefully the orange boil on the soul of the US can be lanced successfully! It will take a lot of time simply do undo some of the harmful measures Trump has instigated - and that's not even addressing the underlying issues which made it possible for Trump to get elected 4 years ago in the first place.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 9, 2020 16:14:22 GMT
Oh, the Latin American leftism! Now, I'm imagining Mexico giving refuge to Trump if he has to flee American courts or something as we briefly did with Evo Morales, who just returned to Bolivia after his party won the election after he was forced to the exile. It's not the left vs the right but populism vs neoliberalism but social media would never admit it!
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 9, 2020 16:19:05 GMT
By the way, I kind of agreed that the networks shouldn't had censoring him. They should had refuted him but diplomatically it's not an intelligent thing to say by someone in his position. Also it's suggested that he kind of believes him!
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Post by queenzod on Nov 9, 2020 20:33:52 GMT
I dunno, sgev. Should news networks air lies just because someone in power says them? Yes, he’s the president, but should they legitimize his lies by airing them? We already have a massive misinformation problem in this country and isn’t that just perpetuating the problem?
I think that’s one of the issues Twitter has been dancing around. They finally started putting warnings on his tweets, but imo it was too little too late. They won’t ban his account b/c he’s a “newsmaker,” and I think that’s a problem. I know we’re into issues of free speech and all that, but lies aren’t covered under our free speech doctrine.
I don’t want to stifle discourse and I guess any old idiot can shout whatever they like into the void, but I do think the spreading of hate and demonstrated lies should be curtailed, especially when it’s coming from one of the most powerful positions on the planet.
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Post by ellie on Nov 9, 2020 21:41:31 GMT
If somebody is lying then their lies should not be broadcast. It a bit pathetic that it took Twitter, CNN and other news outlets four years to cop on to that fact. Trump has got away with telling barefaced lies and calling the truth ‘fake news” for way to long. It’s well past time he was stopped. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the requirement to back your allegations with proof. Something Trump has repeatedly failed to do.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 9, 2020 21:56:00 GMT
I just think it helped to make his case and portray himself as the victim. IMHO it's more useful to clear and straightforward explain why he is wrong. Maybe it wouldn't convince every fanatical out there but surely the majority would had see both sides and understand the weakness of his argument. Instead we have the narrative that he was censored by the evil networks. Even Mexio president is saying it! (By the way, 15 years ago he also claimed that he had won the presidency and that there was a massive fraud against him during a very competitive election. It's not a surprise his position! Actually based in another interview about the American elections, it seems he is still angry at Spain for immediately congratulating his rival in 2006 after the results were formally announced!)
I seriously think that the problem with misinformation is that people on social media live in little bubbles and refuse to listen different opinions. It's easier to believe ridiculous lies like his when everyone around you repeat them.
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Post by ellie on Nov 9, 2020 22:21:42 GMT
But isn’t this more of his lies? The print and broadcast media did cover his announcements and his press conferences and Rudi Gulliani’s bizarre car park press conference. They simply followed up by making it clear his allegations were baseless and the TV did cut away when his remarks were threatening to become libellous. Trump is claiming he was censored when what happened was he was simply not allowed to spout lies and libellous remarks unchallenged. If only the media had the balls to do that earlier in his Presidency then the US might not be in the appallingly volatile and divided social mess it is right now.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 9, 2020 22:42:46 GMT
I'm thinking now about how Internet culture in general and people like Trump soiled everything! Remember how at the beginning of the pandemic the official position by the OMS was that masks didn't work and that people shouldn't wear them? I remember the writer Zeynep Tufekci on Twitter "fighting" a lot of people about it, many of them progressive, because then she was one of the very few with a fridge opinion and was criticizing the mainstream accepted truth. The OMS knew there were a shortage because the early situation in China and medical personnel needed them but instead of clearly explain it to people and search for a solution (homemade mask are very easy to make!), they just said they weren't necessary and that they actually could hurt because people apparently wouldn't know how to correctly wear them.
Later thanks to conspiracy theories and Trump suggesting that people should drink bleach, some social media sites declared that they would censor "fake news" about the Covid-19. It sounded right if you put it against well... drinking bleach but again people like Tufekci were worried because ideas and decisions during a pandemic with a new unknown virus are chaotic and fringe ideas could became the accepted obvious truth later. She was sure she would had been censored and having read the discussions, I agreed. She was seen like a misinformation agent even when it was clear for anyone who bothered to listening her without immediately "screamed" at her "FAKE NEWS" that she knew what she was talking about. Just a few weeks ago, the OMS seems begin to accept another fridge opinion: that the virus stays in the air and it's more contagious that they initially believed it. They were against that ideal, too.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 9, 2020 22:50:36 GMT
But isn’t this more of his lies? The print and broadcast media did cover his announcements and his press conferences and Rudi Gulliani’s bizarre car park press conference. They simply followed up by making it clear his allegations were baseless and the TV did cut away when his remarks were threatening to become libellous. Trump is claiming he was censored when what happened was he was simply not allowed to spout lies and libellous remarks unchallenged. If only the media had the balls to do that earlier in his Presidency then the US might not be in the appallingly volatile and divided social mess it is right now. Agreed that's impossible to censor that guy and that he won't shut up! (I'm still laughing about the Guiliani's press conference!). For me, that's the main issue: networks helped him to his very fake narrative that he is the victim here. They didn't stop him, they fed the narrative. That's why I think it was an error. I don't know but maybe the little messages below his deluded tweets were better. They didn't censored him. They just told the world his statements were questionable.
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Post by ellie on Nov 9, 2020 23:02:06 GMT
But I think that example is not the same as Trump. There have and will continue to be huge differences of opinion on lots of things to do with Covid because everyone is still learning about the disease. And the mask issue remains controversial because their effectiveness depends largely on what type of mask you wear and whether or not you wear it properly.
Trump on the other hand has frequently made statements that are just out and out lies and easily provable as such. That he was allowed to get away with it by the mainstream media for so long is more worrying to me than the fact they are now challenging him.
Social media is a bonkers free for all where any nutters can present as fact any ludicrous notion they like (fake pregnancies/ robot babies for eg 😀). If the mainstream media outlets are to remain relevant and carve a place for themselves in this environment then they must become the source people go to for facts rather than agenda driven fantasies. They seem to have lost sight of that purpose over the past few years with the result that the likes of Wattsap and Twitter have gained far more currency than they deserve as sources of information. A situation Trump used to great effect aided by the lack of any real counter arguments by the mainstream press. I hope that now the media might finally be waking up and doing their feckin’ job!
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