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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 24, 2021 17:22:35 GMT
Agreed that it’s the media but the issue and the funny part is that his answer was very naive. I feel for him because I don’t think he is being malicious nor wanting to be nasty but, of course, it’s not the same a big franchise film and an artistic film. And what he is not understanding and a lot of Marvel people didn’t get, is that these are difficult times for artistic filmmaking. Marvel doesn’t need the Oscars because they already won the culture war. They are the powerful ones, not “victims”. Sadly, artistic films need the silly Oscar and other silly awards to create some publicity in their favor and get some attention from general audiences. It’s nice to know that BC is one of the very few in Marvel that got it, www.theguardian.com/film/2019/oct/24/benedict-cumberbatch-marvel-superhero-monopoly-doctor-strangeAnd you know what? I think Holland wanted to say something similar that what BC said at the NYFF Q&A, that for him as an actor is the same commitment because he treats all his jobs “like the first one and potentially the last one” (not necessarily the same process, tho.) and that you have to be committed to the work no matter the size of the project if you want the paycheck. But yeah, everything came from him wanting but not wanting to tell the “joke” that his Marvel work was only for the paycheck. Anyway, he sounded gracious, humble and sarcastic instead of rude (Holland is practically suggesting he knows more about cinema than Scorsese because he has done both artistic stuff and Marvel films and Scorsese doesn’t!) nor naive. Almodóvar is a very important Spanish filmmaker who actually is very well-known at least in artistic circles everywhere. His last film Parallel Mothers was alongside TPOTD competing at Venice and was also at the NYFF. He also has won a few Oscars, doesn’t? His actors, Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas had received Oscar nominations for his movies even when they are in Spanish.
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 24, 2021 18:06:04 GMT
Poor Holland but yeah, BC is a class act,
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 24, 2021 18:58:14 GMT
And apparently Almodóvar is very grateful for Spider-Man success because it will help to the people to lost the fear and going to the movie theatres! He said he planned to go to see it himself! I also remember that he had nice words for that not very well received Netflix film Holland did a few years ago but this guy hasn’t bothered to know who this guy is! Lol www.hobbyconsolas.com/noticias/almodovar-defiende-spider-man-no-way-home-blockbusters-son-grandes-salvadores-industria-985895Almodóvar has barely made films with English speaking actors (Geraldine Chaplin but in Spanish, Peter Coyote and recently Tilda Swinton), but he has announced multiple times he will do films in English (most recently supposedly with Cate Blanchet) but if BC works with him once, I will go crazy! I hope he enjoys his Dr. Strange! 😉
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Post by sorcerersupreme on Dec 24, 2021 21:24:43 GMT
I genuinely do not believe that Tom thinks Benedict sees no difference between blockbuster films and indie films. And no, it's not just the budget. This is just a case of a child being upset because the thing he's popular in is being critisized. Tom Holland comes across as very ignorant and quite frankly should just keep his mouth shut because the more he talks about the indie side the more painfully cringe his comments become. He is a subpar actor who got typecasted for Spiderman and mostly got his fame for that and all his other roles have been tough to sit through and I doubt he'll ever become one of the better actors out there. He reminds me of that other subpar actor who gets all of the shallow blockbuster roles Chris Pratt I think yeah. That Gyllenhaal - Almodovar comment was just absurd and Jakes reaction says it all.
I'm sure if you ask Benedict he'll say he loves and appreciates all kinds of roles which is the right thing to say but I bet he will give you pros and cons for every type of genre/role. I bet if you ask Benedict what role he is the most proud of it probably won't be the blockbuster one. I also do not believe Benedict does roles just for the paycheck and I'm sure he loves playing Dr Strange, as an actor acting against CGI is also a form of acting and a great way to improve your skills, he also likes the physical acting. But the role in TPOTD has pushed him further than most of his roles, especially the blockbuster ones, and it's no fault of Benedict. The definition of blockbuster used to be The Godfather, today it's Spiderman. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me the only difference between both is the budget. The Godfather (1+2) has arguably the best character development + performance combo in cinema. Al Pacino's subdued, restrained performance is mesmerizing in a way few films are, let alone a Marvel one lol.
I also disagree with Scorcese. Blockbusters have always been a thing. First it was westerns, then action heroes and today superhero movies. Hollywood always rides a wave and sooner or later this wave of superhero films will die too and we'll jump onto the next wave. I hate Disney as much as the next person but the problem here sadly is that the majority of people have bad taste in quality/film. Big Bang Theory is one of the most popular comedies on TV but it's an awful show. Whereas Arrested Development, Community are top tier quality and smart comedies but they both died because no one really watched it. This always happens. TPOTD is one of the best films in the last few years but it will never make 1/10th of most blockbuster films that are inferior. This is in every field of entertainment. A highly intelligent and artistic piece will rarely attract more views than the run of the mill average shallow piece.
I like blockbuster films. I don't mind to sometimes let go and have fun. So I disagree with Scorcese here again. The problem I have is that Disney and by association Marvel, have become a cookie cutter machine that feeds the brainless masses what they want. More Spiderman, more Avengers, more Star Wars. Everything is done by fitting it in their own little box. No creative freedom, no real risk. I don't blame Disney at all, I hate them yes, but if the people didn't go and support their stuff they would cease to exist.
Anyway I liked Ethan Hawke's take on this (Dr Strange is in his top 3 superhero movies btw):
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Post by queenzod on Dec 24, 2021 22:51:42 GMT
I dunno. Seems like a tempest in a teapot to me, all this arguing over what is art and what is not. That’s an impossible line to draw. Technically, I suppose, they’re both art, but one is held in more esteem than the other, populist entertainment. By folks who like to appear more informed and smarter than everyone else. This argument has been going on for as long as there’s been critics. Sure, Tom’s phrasing was a bit awkward and clearly he needs to educate himself more in the field in which he works, but I cut him some slack for being young.
I tend to think of something as art if it opens your eyes to new thoughts and makes you have an experience you’ve never had before. That might apply to some folks watching CBM and not to others. 🤷🏻♀️ But I still would argue there’s inherent worthiness there, even if it’s mostly presented in a somewhat punchy, shallow manner. In Age of Ultron the Avengers wrestled with the question of the possibility/likelihood of governmental control/interference over weapons (themselves). That’s a pretty deep concept and very appropriate to today’s world.
Not everybody is smart or has the capacity to understand subtlety or even abstract thought. So why shouldn’t those people have something to freely enjoy with out all these judgements being laid on them? There’s plenty of room for all kinds of movies.
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 25, 2021 1:24:21 GMT
Yes, of course. But I think the issue that Scorsese originally refereed to was the monopoly of certain kind of cinema. He was worried because it’s increasingly difficult to watch art films or even just adult oriented movies on the big screen nowadays. Even him, a huge name in film history didn’t find financing for his dream adaptation of The Irishman with the traditional Hollywood companies and had to go with Netflix. That’s what he was talking about then. That was the point. I don’t doubt there is pretentious people using this worry as a way for compensate his or her own insecurities but that happens in both sides and the thing is Marvel and superhero franchises are the powerful side but somehow they feel like victims (TBF everyone is a “victim” on social media nowadays!) If Jane Campion, a female filmmaker who struggled for years to finance her films and was frequently repudiated by the establishment for her daring style, says she hates superhero movies, it shouldn’t bothered to fanboys or the Marvel people like it does because it actually doesn’t affect to them in any way. Not everyone would love them but a lot of people does! Enough number of people to make them multi millionaires so why they care so much for “arty” people? Or awards that other much more humble films need to survive?
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Post by queenzod on Dec 25, 2021 1:31:24 GMT
Good points, sgev! I suppose in the end it does all come down to money, doesn’t it? That scourge of the finer arts. It’s ridiculous that movies cost millions to make and if they’re not going to pull big crowds at the theaters why support them? It’s like a dog chasing it’s tail.
Disney is really horrible here. I heard that they got some movie pulled from certain theaters so they could put Spider-Man on more screens. Anyone hear about that? I can’t remember which film it was but if they’re going to muscle in on other properties that’s worse than the studio owned theaters in the 20s and 30s before they got broken up.
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 25, 2021 1:32:12 GMT
Anyway I liked Ethan Hawke's take on this (Dr Strange is in his top 3 superhero movies btw): It’s great that he is a Dr. Strange fan but TBH he is a very close friend of Scott Derrickson. He was the star of Sinister and just did another film with him. I remember he was asked at the time if he would liked to play Dr. Strange or being part of the movie and he said that, yes, he would love it! I don’t think that a good number of the “critics” of Marvel are necessarily anti-Marvel, it’s the monopoly Disney had over everything else what worries them.
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 25, 2021 1:41:22 GMT
Good points, sgev! I suppose in the end it does all come down to money, doesn’t it? That scourge of the finer arts. It’s ridiculous that movies cost millions to make and if they’re not going to pull big crowds at the theaters why support them? It’s like a dog chasing it’s tail. Disney is really horrible here. I heard that they got some movie pulled from certain theaters so they could put Spider-Man on more screens. Anyone hear about that? I can’t remember which film it was but if they’re going to muscle in on other properties that’s worse than the studio owned theaters in the 20s and 30s before they got broken up. Supposedly Licorice Pizza. Some found it ironic because Paul Thomas Anderson was one of the “good” auteur filmmakers who defended superhero franchises against “evil” auteurs who hate them. Although TBF it’s not clear what happened and why the film lost those screens it supposedly would had been shown last weekend but yeah, there are out there a lot of reports about Disney manipulating theatre owners against their “competition”
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Post by sgev1977 on Dec 25, 2021 1:45:16 GMT
Here is a related article,
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