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Post by mllemass on Apr 11, 2022 0:23:08 GMT
Has anyone else watched this Netflix two-part documentary? It’s truly disturbing and not easy to to watch, but wow! Although I don’t remember ever hearing anything about it, it seemed awfully familiar. Jimmy Savile sounded a lot like the character played by Toby Jones in The Lying Detective. And he was, in fact, based on the vile JS.
From Wikipedia:
Of all the repulsive things we learn in the documentary (and there are far too many), it was especially sickening to me that the rumours and charges against JS were not investigated or taken seriously because only a few women had come forward. They hadn’t spoken up decades earlier when they were children because they feared they wouldn’t be believed. And then they grew up, and still were not believed.
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Post by mllemass on Apr 11, 2022 0:42:47 GMT
This person had the same thought I had:
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Post by queenzod on Apr 11, 2022 2:34:36 GMT
The rich and powerful lead different lives than us poor schmucks, and there’s two tiers of justice for these people. They’re rarely held to account and can often weasel out of charges because they can hire a flotilla of lawyers who can hold things up in the courts for decades. It’s disgusting.
Our January 6th committee in congress has PROOF Trump broke the law (seditious conspiracy, a traitorous offense), and yet they’re hesitating in making a criminal referral to our Dept of Justice in case it might appear that they’re playing politics. I’m like WHAT? If they refuse to make the referral there goes the notion that America has equal Justice and no one is above it. It would make every one of them complicit in the coverup of a treasonous act, imo.
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Post by sgev1977 on Apr 11, 2022 12:37:02 GMT
I watched it and I remember the scandal. Just a criticism, the documentary didn’t included anything about the Operation Yewtree that came after his death. The police discovered more celebrity offenders and it was widely published by the British press that Cliff Richard was one of them but then the investigation concluded the accusations against him were not true. The BBC went from being criticized for covered the abuses decades ago to being sued for defamation after easily condemn innocent people. I think that’s interesting because it shows how things are always complex!
I am a fan of old British comedies and Saville was frequently referred in shows like Monty Python or The Goonies and he just looked like a creep! I know we shouldn’t judge people by their “facade” but even before the scandal, he just seemed suspicious to me! I always wondered why British people loved him so much and I found interesting that the explanation the documentary gives is that he was a “working class northerner”! So yeah, he was rich and powerful but also “one of us”! Another British weakness!
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Post by mllemass on Apr 11, 2022 13:37:43 GMT
I think they show in the documentary that the media were reluctant to make the accusations public because then the BBC would have to do something about it. But it’s not up to the broadcasters to decide that something probably isn’t true. If someone goes to the police and files a complaint, it shouldn’t be kept quiet just because a beloved celebrity was involved. People defending JS say it’s suspicious that all of this came out after his death. But imagine how differently it would have turned out if the police had followed through and actually investigated when they should have? How many women in the documentary were certain that they were the only victims, and so didn’t come forward?
There’s a fabulous episode of Law & Order SVU with a Harvey Weinstein-type storyline. The big movie producer was facing accusations from some women who were at first reluctant to come forward. They were afraid of him because he was so powerful. In the final scene of the episode, the women step out of the elevator to go to the courtroom. The elevator doors open to a hallway crowded with dozens of women holding “#MeToo” signs about that movie producer creep. Those 3-4 women who had come forward weren’t his only victims at all! It was one of the few times I’ve ever clapped at a tv show!
There are people on Twitter asking how anyone could sit through such a disturbing documentary. As many have replied, it’s upsetting but also important to watch. Beyond seeing how such a horrible man got away with such sickening behaviour, we need to see how we (society) have raised little girls to shut up and keep quiet when they should be screaming bloody murder.
That one woman they interviewed, who JS molested at church on Sundays, said at first that it was all her fault. She blamed herself for not telling him to stop and not shouting for help when it happened and not telling her mother about it. By the end of the documentary, after they told her about everything he had done and all the victims he’d had over decades, she decided that it wasn’t all her fault after all. She thought that JS was 3/4 to blame. She was still taking on 1/4 of the blame! I wanted to scream! She was a child! She had zero blame! None of his victims were to blame, much less children! It’s time to stop teaching girls to be ladylike and to start teaching them to be LOUD! (That’s my rant for today!)
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Post by MagdaFR on Apr 11, 2022 14:20:09 GMT
I didn't watch the documentary.
About why women didn't speak:
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Post by sgev1977 on Apr 11, 2022 15:00:33 GMT
I think it was a mix of things. For starter, a culture that sexualized young women. In the documentary is briefly mentioned that a lot of the victims were underestimated as just “groupies”. He used to “joke” about him behaving bad in “girls schools”! A very common kind of joke a pair of decades ago. Also the guy was a very cunning predator, which make him even more depraved! A lot of his victims were not just very vulnerable but also “morally” or mentally “questionable” girls: a great number of victims were from a psychiatric hospital for dangerous girls: murderers, pyromaniacs, etc. It’s so vile because he just knew no one would take them seriously and apparently he was so estimated by authorities there because he was a “good” man wanting to spend time “helping” to those patients that they just let him to take girls to his house! Also one woman claims he saw him abuse an unconscious woman at the hospital he voluntarily worked as paramedic. It was a mix of things: a guy who was “a man of the people” admired because he did a lot of charity with a lot of contacts in the highest levels, not just the BBC but also police, institutions, press and even the monarchy.
By the way, the Sherlock episode with Tobey Jones was very criticized at the time because the scandal was recent but I think it was really good. Probably the best episode of the latest series. Jones was brilliant and incredibly creepy. Someone who didn’t knew about Saville would think he was a little cartoonish but, again, Saville was very creepy! He just looked like a supervillain! Of course, that’s not enough to doubt about someone but it’s amazing that he was seen as almost a saint when there were a lot of questionable things about him beyond his physicality!
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Post by mllemass on Apr 11, 2022 15:08:38 GMT
The woman in the documentary was molested in the 1960s, and nothing has changed since then. It’s infuriating!
Here’s my own sort-of experience with this: Back when I was in university, I was friends with a girl who belonged to a youth group at her church. It was supposedly a wholesome place for religious young people to socialize. One year, several churches combined their youth groups and held a big Halloween dance/party. I agreed to go along, even though I didn’t know anyone there except my friend. Within seconds of arriving, someone groped me. I quickly turned around, but there was no one nearby. Whoever did it had moved away. Everyone was in masks and costumes, so the creep could easily have been a few feet away, proud of himself and smirking at me.
I immediately said to my friend “Someone just grabbed me!” She kind of laughed, as if I was joking. I told her I was serious and I kept looking around to see who it might have been. My friend told me to hush and said it must have been someone accidentally bumped into me. How does someone do that accidentally?! I remember nothing after that. At the end of the evening, I asked my friend “Don’t you believe me?”. She said “I believe you, but you were making such a big deal about it and everyone was starting to look. It was embarrassing.” So there you have it! Having my friend tell me that I was embarrassing her by complaining was almost worse than the groping.
(By the way,I’ve never told that story before!)
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Post by llminnowpea on Apr 11, 2022 15:21:41 GMT
That is awful, mllemass. It would have ruined my evening and I would have been so disappointed in my friend. And, myself, too, since I probably would have blamed myself (it is who society tends to blame - the victim - so it is ingrained).
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Post by mllemass on Apr 11, 2022 15:50:41 GMT
That is awful, mllemass . It would have ruined my evening and I would have been so disappointed in my friend. And, myself, too, since I probably would have blamed myself (it is who society tends to blame - the victim - so it is ingrained). I was just wondering why I had never told anyone about that before now. I think I was always worried that people would react the way my friend did back then - that I had made too big a deal about it and that I had embarrassed my friend by drawing attention to what had happened. And yes, my friend made me feel that I had spoiled their “wholesome” church event by speaking out.
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