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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 2:39:33 GMT
It’s almost scary the bad reviews his new series is receiving! I can’t say I have seen too much of him recently. I haven’t even watched the Spider-Man movies! Not even the one with BC! But he gave a wonderful moving performance as a child actor in The Impossible.
Anyway, even when I know that the comments about how bad are are received by critics the non-Marvel projects by Marvel actors or how those actors are “damned” are ridiculous (by the way, a lot of people using BC as example of a successful Marvel actor outside Marvel projects), the reception of his series and to less degree to the very hyped but mediocrity received Elizabeth Olsen series, make me nervous for “Eric”. In part, I guess, because“Eric” seems to be something daring in the sense that it clearly contains some very eccentric stuff: puppets and kiddies cute stuff mixed with themes like homelessness, crime, drugs and AIDS. Something “daring” always risk to be potentially great or awful.
I also read somewhere that the creator and director of Holland’s new series is an award winner director. Just like Abi Morgan but TBH reading his CV, he has done a lot of very bad stuff before, including a lot of mediocre genre stuff. At least, for now, Morgan is a much more respected writer in my eyes even when she hasn’t been nominated to the Oscars like this guy. She hasn’t been nominated to the Golden Raspberry neither!(He has three nominations!). I also have faith on the young acclaimed director of Eric. I’m sure it would be great!
Still, two very hyped series by two of the promising young Marvel stars didn’t received the expecting reception. I guess, Olsen still has a change with awards. After all, worse received series had been awarded in the past. Ask Ryan Murphy! And she certainly is campaigning for the Emmy but I doubt Holland has any chance to change the “narrative” around his new project. Until now, the reception is pretty negative.
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Post by queenzod on Jun 3, 2023 3:05:30 GMT
Is it a Marvel project? I don’t follow him so I have no idea what this new series is. If it’s more Spider-Man, I’ve heard people saying good things about it. 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 3:19:30 GMT
No, it’s a thriller called The Crowded Room. His co-star is Amanda Syfried and it was pretty hyped, just like Love and Death, but it has an awful reception by critics. He plays a criminal in the 1970s with Syfried as his interrogator.
I knew about the reception because some people were naming BC as an example of Marvel actors who are acclaimed outside the franchises when some randoms claimed that Marvel actors were unlucky with their non-Marvel projects.
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Post by queenzod on Jun 3, 2023 5:01:06 GMT
Ah, thanks!
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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 13:28:23 GMT
There is these silly discussions on Twitter about Marvel damaging the actors careers,
It’s not new, of course! I remember that Robert Downey Jr. doing mostly only Marvel movies during his tenure was one of the reasons some, including me, didn’t wanted BC to join the club. There were also already exceptions, tho. At the time, Scarlett Johansson was doing pretty edgy stuff like that Jonathan Glazer film (he just had a major hit at Cannes, by the way)! But of course, it depended of the actor wanting to use Marvel as a platform to do more diverse stuff or just enjoying life while winning a lot of money (both valid options, of course!). Downey Jr. was always sincere about it.
Thankfully, BC went for the “Johnson” option but he still received some flak by ignorant critics enamored of “narratives”. He had another franchise hit with The Grinch after the first Doctor Strange but clearly his heart was on the three series he immediately did after Strange. Those were the kind of projects financed with a “star” name! The three were acclaimed, different, polemic and daring (The Child in Time, Patrick Melrose and Brexit) but some “critics” decided to totally ignore those projects when talking about him and claimed he was also trapped in Marvel and only doing boring bio movies (this based on just one flick he did before DS and that was damaged not just by the Weinstein scandal but by his known tendency to destroy the work of filmmakers. Even Scorsese intervened to help the director! Something that critics should also defend but instead they decided to go with the “Lol. All bios are bad!”, “Lol. Cumberbatch thought he could get the Oscar with it!”, etc.). So even when he was putting his name on interesting projects and winning nominations and awards with them, you still had articles and comments saying he was a failure after Marvel! Of course, his career trajectory is much difficult to ignore after not just the absolute acclaim of TPOTD but even with his well-received bios: The Mauritanian, The Courier and Louis Wain.
So yea, I think there is some prejudice against so called “Marvel actors”. There is also a difference between acclaimed and a box office hit. I mean poor Tom Holland has a very bad run with critics but when the last Spider-Man movie was breaking all the records he had another big hit with that video game movie he did alongside Mark Wahlberg. I remember when people used to say that you knew someone was a movie star when they had an extremely successful “bad” movie. Anyone can sell a good product but you need to be really charismatic or beloved to sell a bad one. It’s slightly similar with Chris Hemsworth. I don’t think he has a lot of hits but a recent poll found that he was the youngest actor people recognized as a movie star alongside people like Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts, DiCaprio, etc. Evans is slightly more “respected”. He did a good “auteur” movie with Snowpierce and the entertaining Knives Out is extremely beloved by basic Film Twitter (sorry!). Tom Hiddleston, IMHO, has talent and it seems to prefer to do theatre outside his Marvel work. His next film with Mike Flanagan could easily be a hit.
On the other hand, you have actors like DiCaprio, who according to Chalamet, compares doing superhero flicks with doing hard drugs. Well, he is a major movie star so it’s easy for him and he has an impeccable career but I don’t think he takes any risk at all. He has this association with someone like Scorsese (an already consolidated legend) and after that security blanket, he just decided to work with… only other consolidated major filmmakers. He receives criticism for not working with female filmmakers since Agnieska Holland when he was very young but, in general, he doesn’t work with non-proofed directors. There is not risk there. That’s why someone like Nicole Kidman (she also worked with Glazer, in his first film, by the way) has a more interesting career IMHO. Of course, she has some failures and franchises but she isn’t a coward. IMHO it’s extremely cunning and, probably, smart to work only with the consolidated best but it’s more a tactic career than an artistic decision.
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Post by queenzod on Jun 3, 2023 14:19:11 GMT
I think if you’re referring to The Current War, that was made in 2019, after he made DS.
But in general, yeah, you’ve made some great points. The people who seem to be doing the best are ones that had a solid career before they went to Marvel. Johannesson, Downey, and BC had been making movies for years before they moved to Marvel. Well, Downey had been making tons of films and was well respected. Marvel put him back on the map after his drug/jail issues.
I’m not sure what Hemsworth was doing before Thor (and he has improved greatly as an actor since then), but he also seems to be stuck at Marvel. Every year he puts out another action movie that tanks. He’s got another one coming out this summer.
Holland is too young, I think, to make predictions about, even though he’s been around a long time, starting on the stage. But he can’t seem to get any momentum outside Marvel. He’s a decent actor, not great, imo, and can do a wicked good American accent, but sometimes he doesn’t come off as serious, for some reason.
I don’t know why Hiddleston hasn’t got a better movie career. He can be brilliant but he does seem to be happy enough on stage, and now he’s got a baby, so good on him if he’s content.
I agree about DiCaprio taking no risks. After he came screaming out of the gate, astonishing everyone with Gilbert Grape he’s mostly been resting on his laurels, although he can be brilliant when he puts in the effort. He’s gotten too comfortable with what he does well, and doesn’t seem interested in developing and doing different things like BC. At this point I’d classify him more of a movie star than an actor, lol.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 15:59:37 GMT
You are right that it was made after DS. My bad but it was made in 2016. I think he did Hamlet then immediately after it DS. Then he did TCW and after that he went to do the brilliant three productions for TV and the Avengers movies during his free time! TCW was indeed released until 2019 and somehow erased all his other acclaimed work in certain quarters.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 20:00:47 GMT
I just saw another comment. Again, because someone was mentioning BC as an example of a Marvel actor who does good stuff outside Marvel. That person was answering to someone claiming that only Elizabeth Olsen is the exception of people “trapped” by Marvel roles. Lol Her fans are really deluded! And don’t take me wrong, although I don’t think she works as hard like BC or others, she has a pair of good movies since she joined Marvel but funnily, they are co-starred by other Marvel actors! So even if those were the exception, it isn’t just her but also Jeremy Renner and Pom Klementieff films! I mean, at least they are talking about the hyped Love and Death but there are a lot of series and movies with other Marvel actors that received much more acclaim than it! I mean a mediocre received Hulu series about the same theme was better received than Love and Death! It was better received that this awfully received Tom Holland series, sure! But a lot of critics said that Candy was better!
EDITED I actually visited her Wikipedia page and she also has also an acclaimed series called Sorry for your Lose made after she debuted in Marvel. It still wasn’t so mainstream to be nominated for major awards like I know This Much is True with Mark Ruffalo or Patrick Melrose with BC which received nominations and awards in the Emmys and BAFTAS. Not that awards meant too much but how it’s that series more relevant than The Night Manager with Tom Hiddleston who, apart of being acclaimed, was actually nominated to the Emmys and still people are saying he is trapped by his Marvel contract! (He kinda is, I know!)
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Post by mllemass on Jun 3, 2023 20:25:57 GMT
I agree that he is too young to predict a career - didn’t he just turn 27? He’s just a baby! Most actors haven’t done anything remotely successful at that age. But I think he has enough success (and money) to be able to do whatever he wants to try. If his fans only want to see him as Spider-Man, then yes, they won’t be happy with anything else he does.
I don’t know about the Chrises or the other Marvel actors, but I don’t see any of them doing an amazing sync video of Umbrella! I think Tom will be just fine.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jun 3, 2023 20:37:14 GMT
He is very young and contrary to what Film Twitter is saying, very successful with audiences. Again Uncharted failed with critics but it was a big hit at the box office at the same time he was already making it big with the last Spider-Man flick.
So yeah, there is time! And obviously, the perception always change. I mean Tom Cruise went from a pretty face loved by the box office to a star who worked with some of the best filmmakers ever (Kubrick, Scorsese, Spielberg, etc.) to a cynical action star and then, last year, to a beloved action star and one of the last real film stars who deserved an Oscar just for being him! He didn't even changed the genre of films with the last one!
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