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Post by coolclearwaters on May 6, 2017 20:57:30 GMT
Someone in Ireland has accused Stephen Fry of blasphemy and he's being investigated!!! Ireland has a law against blasphemy!!!! ...passed in 2009! Christ on the cross, Ireland, what's going on? The only country in the "developed" world with a blasphemy law.
linkhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39830447 |
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Post by ellie on May 6, 2017 21:43:44 GMT
Ireland is not the only Country in the "developed" world with blasphemy laws. In February this year someone was tried in Denmark under that Country's blasphemy laws. Several other European countries, Canada, parts of the USA and parts of Australia still have blasphemy laws.
That said I highly doubt the investigation into Stephen Fry in Ireland will come to anything. As anyone who knows anything about Ireland as it is these days will tell you, we are rapidly becoming one of the most secular nations in the "developed" world. Take a look at the recent coverage of anything to do with religion and you will find public opinion and indeed legislation is very much in favour of separating church and state.
As for Stephen Fry, I find him one of the most overrated, tedious, pompous, bores on the face of the earth. So I sincerely hope he isn't tried for blasphemy, not least because it would give him yet another excuse for a round of self pitying bleating via Twitter.
He is, as Julie Burchill brilliantly described him, "a stupid person's idea of what a clever person is like" so if I never have to hear or read his "I use lots of big words so I must be clever" rants again it will be a great joy.
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Post by coolclearwaters on May 6, 2017 22:20:28 GMT
Ellie, I used "developed" in quotes because an article I read about this topic used the phrase "developed world" which seems like an insult to much of the world. I didn't mean to suggest that Ireland isn't developed.
Well, while blasphemy laws are still on the books in a few states in the U.S. - some dating back to colonial times - they are unconstitutional. It's been almost 200 years since anyone was jailed here for blasphemy. I didn't know about the other countries you mentioned. The article said Ireland was the only one.
I'll take your word for it that Ireland is becoming more secular, but passing blasphemy laws doesn't sound like the way to achieve that. Passing them in 2009 is going in the wrong direction.
I don't care if Stephen Fry is a big crybaby; he still shouldn't be charged with blasphemy.
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Post by dreamsincolour on May 6, 2017 22:27:08 GMT
Of course he shouldn't be had up for blasphemy (no-one should be), but in truth I can't imagine so offending in Ireland would come to much for Stephen Fry in any case. At the very worst, he would just have to not go visiting there. I don't actually particularly like or dislike what one sees of Stephen Fry as a personality, though, myself. My main feeling towards him is that I feel rather sorry for him, because you can see him struggling sometimes and his serious problems with depression and mental health have been well documented. I'll grant he's a little pompous but I can't condemn him for that when I'm all too well aware that that's a bit of a issue for me too, and I can't comment re the self pitying bleating on twitter because I've never actually looked at his twitter account. I understand he has a lot of followers, though, and spends a lot of time there. Not too healthy a sign, that, in my opinion, at least not when indulged in long term. But I don't like criticism of anyone for having a wide vocabulary and for using it. It certainly isn't cleverer to have a limited vocabulary.
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Post by ellie on May 6, 2017 22:30:58 GMT
I think having a wide vocabulary is to be admired. Showing off the fact that you have one by using multiple, unnecessary words is not. It is irritating.
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Post by ellie on May 6, 2017 22:43:48 GMT
Ellie, I used "developed" in quotes because an article I read about this topic used the phrase "developed world" which seems like an insult to much of the world. I didn't mean to suggest that Ireland isn't developed. Well, while blasphemy laws are still on the books in a few states in the U.S. - some dating back to colonial times - they are unconstitutional. It's been almost 200 years since anyone was jailed here for blasphemy. I didn't know about the other countries you mentioned. The article said Ireland was the only one. I'll take your word for it that Ireland is becoming more secular, but passing blasphemy laws doesn't sound like the way to achieve that. Passing them in 2009 is going in the wrong direction. I don't care if Stephen Fry is a big crybaby; he still shouldn't be charged with blasphemy. All you have to do is Google blasphemy laws to get a list of countries who still have them. The journalist who wrote that article either didn't bother to find out or perhaps did and omitted the info as it didn't fit the required angle for the story. Stephen Fry has not been charged with blasphemy. Someone has complained about what he said and it is being investigated. Like I said, I very much doubt it will come to anything. The last time a person was convicted here for blasphemy was in 1855. You don't need to take my word for it that Ireland is becoming much more secular. You can find out easily enough for yourself by looking at some of our media coverage over the past years. In counter to your 2009 example of us "going in the wrong direction", I would draw your attention to the fact that in 2015 the Irish people tangibly demonstrated the move away from Church rules by becoming the first country in the world to endorse same sex marriage by popular vote. We may not be perfect but we are not as that article on Stephen Fry is presenting us. |
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Post by coolclearwaters on May 6, 2017 23:03:22 GMT
I'm glad Ireland endorsed same sex marriage, but they've taken a step back with blasphemy laws. Whether or not Stephen Fry is ever prosecuted, no one should be under threat prosecution for blasphemy ...ever.
No State, country, or culture is perfect. I'm a seventh generation Texan, for god's sake. I know what it's like to live in Satan's rectum - a barbarous, moral desert hell-bent on destroying the world. Believe it or not, there are some lovely people here. Some are even quite progressive. That doesn't change the fact that we do horrible, indefensible things all the time.
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Post by ellie on May 6, 2017 23:10:06 GMT
The law passed in 2009 was an attempt to recognise the now more multicultural population of Ireland. It widened the original law which was exclusive to Christianity to cover all religions. It is not a popular piece of legislation and one which the current government is seeking to amend so that it addresses such things as "hate speech" against people on the grounds of their religion rather than blasphemy in the "old fashioned" interpretation.
I'm not saying that Ireland is perfect. I know that it has and no doubt will do indefensible things.
However it does annoy me when some journalist prints a story that is inaccurate in some key respects and then people take it as fact and use it to admonish Ireland in general.
But maybe I'm being too sensitive.
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Post by igs on May 7, 2017 8:32:17 GMT
The law passed in 2009 was an attempt to recognise the now more multicultural population of Ireland. It widened the original law which was exclusive to Christianity to cover all religions. It is not a popular piece of legislation and one which the current government is seeking to amend so that it addresses such things as "hate speech" against people on the grounds of their religion rather than blasphemy in the "old fashioned" interpretation. This is similar to what we have in Finland. We had a blasphemy law until early 21st century, but they changed it to a pretty obnoxiously titled "Breaching the sanctity of religion" section in the Criminal code, which attempts to encompass all religions. It's more like a hate speech section though, I only remember it being enforced one and that was to fine an MP who called Islam the "pedophile religion" and there was a pretty exciting case of a "free-thinkers' organization" complaining to the state prosecutor about the entire Lutheran church because they published the Bible on their website and it's "insulting to Atheists".  (As an Atheist that case infuriates me greatly, I mean c'mon tons of old stuff is offensive to all kinds of people but prohibiting the publication of all of them is pretty heavily restricting the freedom of speech. This is the kind of stuff that gives Atheists/liberals a bad rap as "snowflakes" and people who get offended by everything.) Suffice to say no charges were brought up in the matter. But it's an interesting section in that its removal is being pushed by both the far-right and the liberals who rarely agree on anything, with everyone in-between just not giving a crap. I definitely don't think anyone should ever be convicted of blasphemy, but where the lines are between it and hate-speech can be hazy. |
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Post by ellie on May 7, 2017 10:17:25 GMT
The Stephen Fry situation is odd. The remarks were made back in 2015. Somebody complained and nothing happened. Now apparently someone (maybe the same person) has contacted the Gardai (our Policeforce) and demanded that action be taken as it is a breach of a law. The Gards are therefore obliged to investigate but I would be highly surprised if anything comes of it.
When it comes to religion and atheism I'm open minded. After all none of us truly know for sure who is right. But intolerance of all varieties annoys me. I get just as incensed with the militant atheist faction as I do with the religious fundamentalists.
I think people should be free to believe or not believe whatever they like and should be free from state interference unless any of their beliefs significantly impact on the safety, health and welfare of individuals and/or the community in general.
The 2009 Blasphemy law is likely to be either abolished or amended as I indicated in my earlier post. Given that the last time any sort of blasphemy conviction occurred here was in 1855, I guess dealing with it will not be a priority given all the other stuff the Government has on its plate at the moment - not least the real possibility of the return of a "hard border" between the North and South of Ireland post Brexit which would be an unmitigated disaster. But the 2009 law will be dealt with.
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(As an Atheist that case infuriates me greatly, I mean c'mon tons of old stuff is offensive to all kinds of people but prohibiting the publication of all of them is pretty heavily restricting the freedom of speech. This is the kind of stuff that gives Atheists/liberals a bad rap as "snowflakes" and people who get offended by everything.) Suffice to say no charges were brought up in the matter. But it's an interesting section in that its removal is being pushed by both the far-right and the liberals who rarely agree on anything, with everyone in-between just not giving a crap.