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Post by queenzod on Feb 24, 2018 15:23:00 GMT
I completely agree with this assessment. It seems sometimes that critics review the impact or meaning a film has rather than the film itself. That’s two different things. I’m thrilled that BP has resonated with so many people, that it speaks of a Black Utopia, that it was carefully crafted with the rich history of many African nations. Great stuff and we hopefully will get to experience more of that as film continues to change. But I can’t imagine a superhero movie being so good that it’s earthshaking. Sometimes, movies don’t have to be that brilliant to mean something to a vast group of people. But we shouldn’t conflate meaning with craft.
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Post by sgev1977 on Feb 24, 2018 18:59:36 GMT
Agreed. I’m glad it succeed in that way but at the same time critics shouldn’t mix politics with quality. I think it’s very worrying and it’s of course more noticeable with American reviewers. Also the herd thinking doesn’t help! Now dissidents are not judged just because they don’t agree with the RT score but they also must be complicit of all kind of injustices!
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Post by queenzod on Feb 24, 2018 21:41:55 GMT
I saw Wonder Woman last night. I usually have to wait until it shows up on tv because I can’t afford to go to the movies very much, and I have to say I thought it was ho hum. I loved the concept, it looked fabulous, Gal Gadot is incredibly beautiful and sexy (a new girl crush of mine), but it was just another superhero movie. I know it spoke to a lot of people, including young girls, and that’s wonderful, but was it Art? I don’t think so. That’s okay with me. Not everything has to be Important like that.
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Post by igs on Feb 25, 2018 14:39:46 GMT
I know it spoke to a lot of people, including young girls, and that’s wonderful, but was it Art? I don’t think so. That’s okay with me. Not everything has to be Important like that. Agreed, not everything needs to be Very Important or Very Artsy (I haven't yet seen Black Panther, I will soon though, so can't comment on that.) I did think Wonder Woman was much better than most superhero movies in a few ways though, most importantly because the Wonder Woman/Steve Trevor relationship was so well-developed. It shows that it was written by a gay man and directed by a woman, what other superhero movie has managed to make the hero's love interest anything but a dull token character? Christopher Nolan maybe, and I know many people like Peggy Carter from the first Captain America movie but I found that film overall so dull that I don't remember how it was (though even I remember it was better than the pathetic Cap/Emily van Camp's character out-of-nowhere entirely-chemistryless smooch in Civil War that I imagine was there just to re-assert Cap's oh so important heterosexuality...)
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Post by sgev1977 on Feb 25, 2018 15:07:40 GMT
I think the problem is that critics seems to be mixing artistic value with important social themes so a movie that in normal times would be called just good is suddenly a masterpiece and saying a talented actor or director is talented is apology of a crime if that person is publicly considered amoral. That’s crazy!
I recently watched a movie by a black female director. I was sincerely excited to watch it and was very disappointed because it was so mediocre. It has a good number of positive reviews with a very few mixed but I now think most of the good ones were undeservedly and suspect they were influenced because who she is. It’s the kind of movie people criticized Weinstein for doing it: a bio, important historical theme, melodrama, etc. but he actually did it much better. Most people are very cynical about these kind of movies but no one were cynical about this one which had problems with rhythm and very one-dimensional characters. Yesterday, IndieWire published an interview with her centering, of course, in her work for equality and I want her to triumph but I can’t lie and say that her movie is good or promising. Sadly it was just very mediocre and supremely conventional. There is nothing really revolutionary in it if we talk about the craft and forget identity of the person behind the scenes.
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Post by kreizimam on Feb 25, 2018 23:56:07 GMT
I completely agree with this assessment. It seems sometimes that critics review the impact or meaning a film has rather than the film itself. That’s two different things. I’m thrilled that BP has resonated with so many people, that it speaks of a Black Utopia, that it was carefully crafted with the rich history of many African nations. Great stuff and we hopefully will get to experience more of that as film continues to change. But I can’t imagine a superhero movie being so good that it’s earthshaking. Sometimes, movies don’t have to be that brilliant to mean something to a vast group of people. But we shouldn’t conflate meaning with craft. Yeah. Black Panther is, as Marvel movies before it, good. But people really went overboard with praising every aspect of it. Wonder Woman all over again.
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Post by sgev1977 on Feb 26, 2018 0:04:08 GMT
I haven’t watched it but my comic book obsessed friend said the last Thor movie was much better. He said it was good but not one of the best. I told him I read it takes itself too seriously and he agreed.
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Post by kreizimam on Feb 26, 2018 0:07:50 GMT
I can't disagree more. Template marvel villain (I saw it already in Doc Strange and Civil War). And MBJ delivery was bland (can't really blame him though) I think Andy Serkis' was better characterized by the writer(s).
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Post by sgev1977 on Feb 26, 2018 0:29:22 GMT
People have criticized Marvel for its villains but sometime ago someone posted on IMDb forums that this was because they had great heros. DC was more interested in its villains meanwhile Marvel cared mush more for the heroes. I was surprised to read it was the opposite in this movie not just by that critic but also by Leo Krauze, a Mexican journalist who isn’t actually a critic but his brother is! He said he loved the movie but didn’t understand why the charismatic actor was playing the bad guy when he should had be Black Panther.
The movie is a phenomenon but it’s confusing to read its star is not the main attraction here. Is just because its politics that people run to watch it? That’s amazing! Probably there is also the female cast, the Argentine critic said the women were more funny and interested that the lead. Everybody is talking about Letitia Wright and I remember she was very good and yes, charismatic in Back Mirror’s Black Museum. It still perplexing to think the biggest Marvel hit has, according to some, a weak superhero!
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Post by igs on Feb 28, 2018 18:23:13 GMT
It still perplexing to think the biggest Marvel hit has, according to some, a weak superhero! I think Captain America is a weak superhero. It's not a common opinion, I think, but he's constantly out-shined by others in his own films (especially Bucky, also Black Widow in Winter Soldier) to the extent that Captain America: Civil War feels more like an Iron Man film than a Cap one by the end. Or an Avengers movie. I saw Black Panther and honestly, I thought it was indeed one of the best Marvel films. I don't think T'Challa/Black Panther himself is bad, it's just that his entourage is much better than in most MCU films (apart from Guardians of the Galaxy.) Lupita Nyong'o's Nakia sweeps the floor with Cap's/Iron Man's/Thor's/Doctor Strange's shoe-horned in love interests (the only other really great love interest is Steve Trevor in Wonder Woman), the Dora Milaje women are the bomb (dot com), Letitia Wright's character does steal the show and yes Michael B Jordan is very good. But then again he's more like Loki/Bucky type of a villain, not the cookie-cutter MCU bad guy that looks like robots and randomly shoot fireballs and lightnings on the streets just because. By the way, I don't think it was a perfect film or above criticism. So I totally don't think critics who didn't like it or didn't think it was perfect (I didn't either, I think it would probably be number 4 or something in my MCU ranking) should be bullied into towing the line.
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