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Post by igs on Oct 16, 2017 4:50:43 GMT
Lars von Trier is absolutely awful. I love Dancer in The Dark though, I've got to admit. But I hate all his other movies (except maybe one, I incidentally saw a theater production of his movie "Boss" a couple of weeks ago, didn't know he wrote it but it was funny, haven't seen the film though) and everything I know about him is disgusting. His films always come across as pretentious pieces of nonsensical crap to me, did before I knew anything about the man himself.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 16, 2017 10:43:04 GMT
I like a few of his movies but I have to admit that I was shocked when I watched Breaking the Waves. It’s te first film by him I watched and it was widely praised but it was extremely misogynistic. I couldn’t believe no one had noticed or at least no one I read before watching it!
I though I finally “understood” him with Dogville that’s why I found so interesting that Bjork feel she changed him. For first time he didn’t completely destroyed his main female character there.
He has always been very nasty so yes, it’s ALSO not a big surprise.
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Post by onebluestocking on Oct 16, 2017 14:13:40 GMT
I am frustrated that HW may be vanquished, but the same situation repeats again and again without consequence, when actors refer vaguely to abuses by directors/producers/etc. that they refuse to name.
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Post by ellie on Oct 16, 2017 15:23:25 GMT
Exactly. Real bravery would be naming names but, understandably, people may fear the consequences. Lots of powerful people who can do damage to whistleblowers are no doubt still operating in Hollywood.
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Post by onebluestocking on Oct 17, 2017 3:31:07 GMT
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Post by ellie on Oct 17, 2017 7:36:41 GMT
That is by light years the best and most honest statement and assessment of the situation so far. Well done to Scott Rosenberg for writing it and thanks for posting it OBS. It's a breath of fresh air in the midst of the swamp of sanctimony emanating from everyone else.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 17, 2017 13:21:25 GMT
I think he sounds honest but like most naive honest things he didn't thought what he was saying. There are a few things that bothers me. For example, it's without doubt hyperbole to say "sanctimonious denial" is almost (¨not-so-distant¨) the same than "rape". I mean maybe he could say that being there and not having done anything when they could facilitated the rape but I guess "sincere" people like him would be also more directly compromised than just people who knew something (remember he didn't knew about the rapes) like him AND are now being self-righteous.
Also he could or couldn't do something? First he says he couldn't because how? but then at the end he suggests he could (the "rewards" made him "kept his mouth shut").
He also comments that actress friends told him about the harrasment but "they sort of laughed at his arrogance". (Also "Not to mention, most of the victims chose not to speak out" Victim blaming? How can someone like him could do something if even victims laughed at the incidents and chose not to talk?). It was a joke! Maybe because it seems it is until certain degree unknown to me is a normal behavior in Hollywood. Just see the MTV video with Affleck touching that girl. She tells the camera she didn't like it but she is laughing. She now says she felt like crying but had to laugh then!
Again I think he is sincere in the way we tell our thoughts without too much filters, trying to sound fair but still trying to defend ourselves and blaming others. At the end his is not different than some other "sanctimonious" statements". He is practically saying the same than people like George Clooney or Colin Firth. Actually Firth even admitted to knew about one assault and like him feeling awful about not doing anything. He doesnt even try to justify himself saying he couldn't (although I could believe they couldn't do too much) or blame other people. The only diference with them is that his stamentent sounds informal, not well-thought and he is not just confessing but blaming other who maybe are worst than him because they are sanctimonious and remember being sanctimonious is not-so-distant to rape!
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Post by ellie on Oct 17, 2017 13:39:39 GMT
Well let's be clear, HW has denied the rape allegations so the behavior Rosenberg is talking about is the harassment.
Anyway his statement may not be perfectly crafted but essentially what he is saying is "we all knew that HW sexually harrassed women, we didn't do anything about it because there was nothing we could really do given that the victims weren't pressing charges. BUT even if there was something we could have done we probably wouldn't because HW was giving us such great careers and lifestyles. Therefore we did wrong too snd we should admit it, not try to paint ouselves out of the picture by pretending we didn't know about HW's behaviour. "
And for me that sums up the whole sordid mess in a nutshell and needed saying.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 17, 2017 14:25:56 GMT
I particularly liked Clooney's comments. I think he sounded sincere. He said he heard rumors but they were framed in a misogynistic way, which sounded real to me. He didn't knew the degree of the harassment, tho. Maybe he was lying, I can't know for sure but it's not different from what this guy is saying. He also didn't say anything that sounded like blaming the victims or compared rape to something else. I had to admit that last thing was what really bothers me about the statement. Social media has that awful habit of compare annoying or slightly offensive (most of them) verbal things to actual crimes and that really bothers me.
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Post by onebluestocking on Oct 17, 2017 14:37:21 GMT
He says he didn't know about the actual rapes, and probably didn't. HW surely didn't have an audience for those. If I'm correct, Rose McGowan's out of court settlement would have been during that time period, but she had a non-disclosure agreement so couldn't have confirmed it, and of course the cases we are just hearing about wouldn't have been common knowledge at the time. So he is talking about harassment only.
I agree and I appreciate the honesty of his statement. Certainly better than those who enjoyed HW's largesse at the time, looked the other way about the harassment, and now pretend they knew nothing about it.
To be fair, really nobody else can report harassment or assault if the victim won't come forward. So this guy, and all the other bystanders, couldn't realistically have gone to the police, press, or board of the company just to report a second-hand rumor. And if they had, nothing would have happened, and the whistleblower would have been blackballed for crossing HW. If we understand why the victims themselves wouldn't name names (then or now) to protect their careers and reputations, how can we criticize others for having the same concern, especially since it wasn't their story to tell and would have made zero difference?
The good news is that what he could do, along with everyone else in the world, is react in everyday situations where harassment or sexism occurs. As we all know, sexual harassment doesn't only happen to Hollywood starlets! Everybody has a chance to say "that wasn't cool" if they witness men behaving badly. This gives all the keyboard warriors demanding to know why the women didn't come forward earlier, or why the bystanders didn't do something, countless opportunities to take action in their own lives. Harassment and sexism will continue until perpetrators are socially embarrassed and corrected at the early stages of "boys will be boys behavior", far before any rapes happen. The same goes for racism (you may not be a policeman in an abuse of power situation, but you do contribute in your own small way to a racist culture, if you ignore objectionable comments, jokes, etc.)
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