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Post by ellie on Oct 31, 2017 21:18:49 GMT
I'm not judging Kevin Spacey solely on the allegation - his statement is a problem, too. He didn't deny it. He didn't say it didn't happen or that he has never done anything like that and never would. He said he didn't remember and must have been drunk. I would be shocked and outraged if I had been accused of trying to molest a child. I didn't read any shock or even surprise in his statement. I take that to mean that he's not surprised and it's probably something he did on a regular basis. That may or may not be true but, at present, what you're making are assumptions Milemass not proven facts. The fact is that Spacey has not said that he did do what he has been accused of. Until that fact is established beyond reasonable doubt then what we may or may not think of his statement is not grounds for conviction.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 31, 2017 21:22:15 GMT
Agreed it seems too fast but in the case of both Weisntein and Spacey, I think people knew or suspected so they probably feel they don't need to wait for the right process. It doesn't mean they are right, of course. It creates a dangerous precesent because if the reactions become the standard it could affect innocent people and that doesn't help anybody. One example is the polemic around Title IX in American collages. It tried to solve one big problem but it just created a vindicative awful situation that don't resolve anything. www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/laura-kipniss-endless-trial-by-title-ixStill, I think until know those accused are known cases so for logic there is a very few people who would talk in their defense.
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Post by ellie on Oct 31, 2017 21:33:06 GMT
Well Weinstein has admitted he sexually harassed women but he has denied rape. Whereas Spacey has admitted nothing and the only “evidence” against him so far is rumour and gossip.
I’m coming at this from a purely factual viewpoint. On the basis of what we KNOW right now Weinstein cannot be convicted of rape and Spacey cannot be convicted of anything. If we are going to decide people are guilty on the basis of gossip and a feeling that it’s something they “probably” would do then we are going down an extremely dangerous route.
We have a judicial system for a reason.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 31, 2017 21:58:43 GMT
Agreed. It's just that reactions right now are by private companies which a) fear audience/press reactions and b) probably know more that they admit
If Weinstein or Spacey prove they are innocent then they can easily sue for unjustified dismissal but agreed that the damages would be done in their careers. That's why I think the precedent is dangerous.
But I don't think their companies have big doubts in those two cases. I suspect they knew.
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Post by coolclearwaters on Oct 31, 2017 22:05:24 GMT
I don’t know. Confidentiality might even be required. If they announce that they are are conducting a harrassment investigation against him or anyone else and decide there is nothing there, then the public will know and many will assume there was something to the investigation even if there wasn’t. It’s a no win situation all the way around. Whatever their reasons for shutting down production, they’re probably being especially careful to follow procedure right now rather than risk a law suit. There’s no reason to assume due process isn’t being followed. I can’t even imagine the lawyers that are probably involved on all sides.
As for them stripping Spacey of his Emmys, I hadn’t heard that. Has that happened? If so, that is outrageous!
This does make me sad (although not as sad as the whole Cosby scandal. That still hurts). I’ve always liked his acting and have found him very entertaining.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 31, 2017 22:15:32 GMT
I'm not sure but I don't think he was stripped of his old Emmys. He won't be received a special International Emmy that was announced he will. I guess it was for his trajectory.
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Post by ellie on Oct 31, 2017 22:16:41 GMT
So far they’ve just stripped him of a special Emmy he was due to be presented with next month.
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Post by mllemass on Oct 31, 2017 23:35:50 GMT
He said he doesn't remember doing it.
I just find his statement weird. He had to have put thought into it - it's not like he was caught by surprise and had a microphone shoved in his face. This was a statement he worded carefully, and it's not the statement of an innocent man. That's just my opinion.
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 31, 2017 23:48:55 GMT
IMO he was waiting for more accusations. That's why he said there were a lot of rumors about him. And tried to distract with him declaring himself gay. It kind of worked at the beginning. I don't remember if AP or Reuters published an article with the headline saying he was gay but ignoring the accusation.
Now I am seeing tweets about accusations against Jeremy Piven. Something about HBO saying they didn't know anything.
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Post by coolclearwaters on Nov 1, 2017 0:09:13 GMT
I have to confess, when I first read Spacey’s statement, I was really impressed that he didn’t deny it, actually apologized, and didn't try to discredit Rapp in any way. He could have easily denied the incident, because there is no way that anyone could ever prove that this happened. He may have been trying to do damage control and was probably thinking about the possibility of more accusations on the horizon. Of course, his coming out of the closet in this way was an attempt at deflection, but he also probably anticipated more endless speculation about his sexual preference and decided to just take that topic out of the conversation. If so, boy did it backfire.
If half of what his brother says about their upbringing is true, that is so sad and one of the most sordid things I have ever read. It’s even worse than the Patrick Melrose story. How does someone survive that and become a functioning human being at all? That’s no excuse for hurting other people, but it’s tragic.
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