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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 16:05:46 GMT
Post by MagdaFR on Jan 24, 2018 16:05:46 GMT
Really? I did not know that about Gary Oldman. What did he say? Some time ago he spoke against PC in reference to Mel Gibson and Alec Baldwin. I couldn't find the actual interview. www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jun/24/gary-oldman-playboy-interview-antisemitism-mel-gibsonThe Thimotée Chalamet stans are using this and that he allegedly hit his ex-wife (one of them) with a phone to discredit him and make TC win (although TC is probably behind DDL). The allegations about abusing his wife are spread by his detractors without any proof and that he was given full custody of their children while his wife has only supervised visits with them is discarded because he must have better lawyers.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 16:06:02 GMT
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Post by sgev1977 on Jan 24, 2018 16:06:02 GMT
Really? I did not know that about Gary Oldman. What did he say? He said that the director and producers edited the material in a way to show his Republic character as a villain and the reason was they were all Democrats. At the time, the declaration made a lot of fuss. Oldman was nominated to the SAG award for the role and was considered a candidate but was ignored at the end. There were of course rumors that members of the Academy weren't happy with him.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 16:57:59 GMT
Post by ellie on Jan 24, 2018 16:57:59 GMT
Thanks for the explanations. I do think PC can be overdone sometimes but there was no way what Mel Gibson said was in any way excusable. Being drunk does not make racially abusing people ok. And I don’t agree with Gary Oldman that everyone uses that sort of language in private. I have never used disparaging racial terms and I think that makes me the rule rather than the exception. Most people do not use that sort of language in public or in private.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 17:04:33 GMT
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Post by sgev1977 on Jan 24, 2018 17:04:33 GMT
I would said the incident with the phone was considered not true or at least questionable by the authorities. I understand the mother of his kids was considered much more problematic than him. She was an "active" addict when he won the custody of his sons. He was reformed by then.
I don't know. His Playboy quotes are disgusting and he has indeed a problematic PAST but if the reason you think an actor deserve an award more than other is different to he/she did the best work then you are pathetic. I really don't understand the just "saints" deserve to be called talented mentality. That's mediocrecy! If someone commits a crime that person deserves to be in jail but saying he/she didn't do anything relevant when they did is dumb!
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 18:02:46 GMT
Post by ellie on Jan 24, 2018 18:02:46 GMT
I wasn’t saying he shouldn’t win the award, just that I didn’t agree with what he said re Mel Gibson.
But you raise an interesting point. If it’s not OK for people who treat women badly to win awards or hold positions of power in Hollywood then why should it be ok for people who condone treating people of certain ethnicities badly?
I think that, like in any profession, there should be a code of conduct and standards by which people in “showbiz” professions will be held accountable. Breaches of that code should affect their career whether it be in its general progression or their eligibility for awards.
If, for example, a very successful banker was guilty of drugging and raping a 13 year old you can be sure he wouldn’t have a bunch of other bankers publically standing up for him and saying he shouldn't be prosecuted because he was really good at banking. Likewise if someone in a “normal” profession was found guilty of racial abuse they woukd be disciplined or,more likely, fired regardless of how good they were at their day job.
Why should actors, directors, producers and other “creative” industry workers be held to more lenient standards. In my view Artistic License should not extend to excusing sexual abuse, racism, bullying and, indeed, any other behaviour not acceptable in other walks of life.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 19:04:40 GMT
Post by roverpup on Jan 24, 2018 19:04:40 GMT
Just finished watching Dunkirk. Really, really enjoyed it despite its disjointed timeline. Dan said the aerial combat scenes were particularly well done. I found Nolan’s approach especially effective - very tense, not a lot of dialogue and immense importance on the musical score to produce the glue that keeps the whole film together. In fact if I had my druthers I would say that Hans Zimmer is hands down the very best thing about this movie (although without the stunning visuals to go along with the music it just wouldn’t work of course). Zimmer also has done the credit music to The Crown which I didn’t find too surprising because it has many of the beautiful elements that the score to this movie has too. The orchestration is just... gorgeous! Glad to see Zimmer is up for an Oscar for his work on this film! I can’t see him being bettered by anyone (although he could be equaled and then it could be a toss up for a win). I should be able to watch the other two noms in this category so we will see if my opinion changes after doing that.
Anyway, I like what Nolan did with this material, sunned by Zimmer’s music and was really touched by Mark Rylance’s subtle performance as well.
:-))
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 22:25:10 GMT
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Post by sgev1977 on Jan 24, 2018 22:25:10 GMT
I wasn’t saying he shouldn’t win the award, just that I didn’t agree with what he said re Mel Gibson. But you raise an interesting point. If it’s not OK for people who treat women badly to win awards or hold positions of power in Hollywood then why should it be ok for people who condone treating people of certain ethnicities badly? I think that, like in any profession, there should be a code of conduct and standards by which people in “showbiz” professions will be held accountable. Breaches of that code should affect their career whether it be in its general progression or their eligibility for awards. If, for example, a very successful banker was guilty of drugging and raping a 13 year old you can be sure he wouldn’t have a bunch of other bankers publically standing up for him and saying he shouldn't be prosecuted because he was really good at banking. Likewise if someone in a “normal” profession was found guilty of racial abuse they woukd be disciplined or,more likely, fired regardless of how good they were at their day job. Why should actors, directors, producers and other “creative” industry workers be held to more lenient standards. In my view Artistic License should not extend to excusing sexual abuse, racism, bullying and, indeed, any other behaviour not acceptable in other walks of life. I was referring to Timothee Chalamet's fans reactions mentioned by Magda. Not you, Ellen! But I agreed with you! If someone is found guilty due process, that person should pay the consequences. If there's a conduct code it should be made public first and respected. What I don't agree is people using resolved cases (the police investigation against Gary Oldman or even he retracting from those awful quotes) against someone and saying that's the reason he doesn't deserve to win. I understand if an association doesn't want to award polemic people and they have the right to not doing it but people trying to use something from the past it's just nasty. Also it's hypocritical to negate/censure/ignore great work because crimes or bad behavior. Yes, the person should suffer the consequences of their amoral or criminal acts but I don't see why negate the talent. After all a company/government doesn't erase the good work of people who behaved badly and are discovered. In art, we would lost a lot of bad behaved people if their work is erased or boycotted from William S. Burroughs (actually most beats generation writers were awful!) to David Bowie. And that's just in modern times!
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 22:44:29 GMT
Post by ellie on Jan 24, 2018 22:44:29 GMT
Yes. I mostly agree. The lack of transparent rules and leadership in managing the whole abuse scenario leaves it open to opportunists. That’s why I think it’s vital some properly researched and externally validated codes of behaviour are introduced for the the Film and other similar creative industries. Because right now it’s open season on everyone with seemingly no obligation of proof or due process. I believe having proper procedures in place would help not just identify wrongdoing but also prevent accusations being thrown around without any burden of proof incumbent on the accuser.
Yes many artists have been very badly behaved in all sorts of ways over the years and will continue to be so. I don’t think their work shoukd be banned or their talent negated. However, depending on the nature of what they’ve done, I do think there are cases where they should not receive awards that bring with them the perception that their behavior is condoned by their industry, their peers or their Government.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 22:56:07 GMT
Post by queenzod on Jan 24, 2018 22:56:07 GMT
I kind of thought the point of Gary’s statement is that everyone is hypocritical to an extent, and PC culture denies that.
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Oscars
Jan 24, 2018 23:03:45 GMT
Post by ellie on Jan 24, 2018 23:03:45 GMT
Yes. But he chose some very innappropriate examples and made some very sweeping generalisations to illustrate his point. That’s the issue for me.
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