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Oscars
Jan 25, 2018 3:00:58 GMT
Post by queenzod on Jan 25, 2018 3:00:58 GMT
A prime example of what he was saying, lol. He is his own example. 😉
I know people should be careful what they say, and the use of certain terms curtailed. I get it. But some days I’m so sick of Outrage Culture, where entire news articles are about who said what about whom. Usually low level celebrities calling one of the Kardashians names. 🙄 Not that they don’t deserve it, because I’ve never seen a more vapid family in my life.
It’s so tiresome, everyone taking sides and lecturing each other about what you can and cannot do or say, and painting an entire person with the Evil Brush for saying some dumb, stupid, ignorant thing.
Granted, I’m generalizing on the other side of things, lol, and I don’t agree with Gary’s politics (or Mel, or RDJ, for that matter), but there’s got to be more to life than getting into an uproar over name calling, and having that affect what is supposed to be an award for acting.
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Oscars
Jan 25, 2018 3:44:28 GMT
Post by sgev1977 on Jan 25, 2018 3:44:28 GMT
TBF those quotes are really awful. Not just the words but the ideas (Jews controlling things!) but he retracted and that should be enough. I am not naive and I know it could be a fake apology but if there is not a crime or a constant damaging behavior then it should be some good faith somewhere and that’s what outrage culture can’t admit: sometimes people do mistakes that they regret and sometimes they try to chage because they learn from them!
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Oscars
Jan 25, 2018 13:28:42 GMT
Post by ellie on Jan 25, 2018 13:28:42 GMT
I do agree that PC has become somewhat counterproductive due to some people taking it to rudiculous extremes. But the comments endorsed and made by Gary Oldman in that interview were way out of order and totally unacceptable by even the most basic standards. I know he apologised and I’m certainly not endorsing a smear campaign against him. But I do have to wonder about the mindset of a man who talks about “Jews” controlling industries and excuses the use of serious racial abuse on the grounds that “everyone does it.”
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Oscars
Jan 25, 2018 13:53:13 GMT
Post by onebluestocking on Jan 25, 2018 13:53:13 GMT
Unfortunately, great talent does not necessarily equal a great person in any other way. If their work is that phenomenal, it will stand the test of time and be recognized years after people have forgotten about their personal lives or opinions. If not, no great loss that they won no awards during their lifetimes either.
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Oscars
Jan 26, 2018 10:39:04 GMT
Post by MagdaFR on Jan 26, 2018 10:39:04 GMT
There was a whole Twitter thing where they compared Lady Bird to an episode of Gilmore Girls. They went into great detail pointing out the similarities, from the characters and storyline, to the dialogue. I looked for those tweets comparing Lady Bird and Gilmore Girls and the points they make (I didn't watch GG) are not substancial imo. As I think I've mentioned before, I saw a movie on tv when I was little that sounds exactly like the story in The Shape of Water. I've searched everywhere for it, and I've asked everyone I know about it, but no one seems to remember it but me. I keep waiting for Guillermo del Toro to give an interview where he says that he was inspired by an old Canadian TV movie (which is fine!), but no. He says the idea came out of his head. There are some articles about the similarities between TSoW and a play by Paul Zindel. The original article: hollywoodnerd.com/did-the-shape-of-water-plagiarize-the-paul-zindel-play-let-me-hear-you-whisper/Wow mllemass I haven't read that article before posting it, just the comments on THR about it. There are in fact not one but two movies based on Let Me Hear You Whispre, the play by Paul Zindel. You must have seen one of those or perhaps there was another adaptation of the play. www.imdb.com/title/tt0248152/I didn't find on Imdb a page for the other version.
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Oscars
Jan 26, 2018 12:33:42 GMT
Post by mllemass on Jan 26, 2018 12:33:42 GMT
I haven't read this article yet, but Paul Zindel!!! I read all his books when I was in elementary school - they were wonderful! I made my friends read them, too. I haven't thought about him or his books in years. I can still picture the section on the shelf of my local library where his books were. I would always go straight there to see if there was anything new.
Thanks for finding this!
ok - I just clicked on the article and my heart just stopped. That's it! The picture of the woman sweeping and the tank behind her is exactly what I was remembering. I was not imagining it - yay!
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Oscars
Jan 26, 2018 13:14:46 GMT
Post by mllemass on Jan 26, 2018 13:14:46 GMT
Thanks again, Magda, for finding this information. I've been searching for months and found nothing. I have to call everyone I pestered about it - including my cousin just two days ago - and tell them that I was right and I wasn't imagining things!
I know I posted something about it right after TIFF when everyone was making a big deal about TSOW. At first, I was kind of excited to hear that they were making a remake of that old TV movie I had seen when I was little. But then GdT kept saying in interviews that it was his original idea, and that seemed so wrong to me.
It's funny that I assumed it was a Canadian production because it had that low-production feel of a lot of Canadian shows at that time. But now I know that it looked that way because it was actually a filmed play. And it wasn't in black and white, but our tv was! We didn't get a colour tv until I was in high school (my father was never one to jump onto the latest "fad"!)
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Oscars
Jan 26, 2018 15:16:02 GMT
Post by MagdaFR on Jan 26, 2018 15:16:02 GMT
There is also this short film from 2015.
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Oscars
Jan 27, 2018 2:07:59 GMT
Post by dreamsincolour on Jan 27, 2018 2:07:59 GMT
I haven't seen "The Shape Of Water" yet, and I never read the play or anything based on it, so I'm not commenting on this particular example of accused "plagiarism". But I was always really irritated on IMDB to see the lack of basic understanding demonstrated by so many re how the process of creativity actually works. There were always SO many utterly stupid comments condemning this or that as a rip off of something else, when those so commenting had mostly never entertained the smallest thought re why that might be (if so at all) and that that's how it's always been and that that's how it always will be, because the reworking of ideas and images etc that have gone before is what art and creativity are all about. Sometimes it works well and sometimes badly, and everything in between, and most of it'll be effectively forgotten anyway. The only way something creative could be truly "original" is if someone had lived in isolation for the whole of their life, with no access to anything man made either (the extremity of naive). Otherwise, ALL creativity is essentially a reworking of ideas and imagery and the experience of things that have gone before. The sources of "inspiration" might not be recognised, but they'll be there somewhere. So EVERYTHING is plagiarism to some extent. It's just a issue of degree and even then it's perfectly possible for someone to have been inspired by something while not consciously knowing where ideas came from.
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Oscars
Jan 27, 2018 4:48:28 GMT
Post by mllemass on Jan 27, 2018 4:48:28 GMT
I agree! Stories get told and re-told all the time, and the same themes have been coming up for centuries. People have borrowed from Shakespeare forever, and we don't call it plagiarism. But they couldn't get way with saying that they came up with the idea because Shakespeare is too well known for that.
But with TSOW, it's just so specifically similar to that 1960's play that it can't just be a coincidence that two different people, decades apart, had the exact same idea. As I've already mentioned, when I first heard the description of TSOW, before I ever saw the trailer, my first thought was that he had remade that old movie I had seen. I don't think anyone minds if GdT got his idea from somewhere else, especially if it's from an obscure play that most people have never heard of. But he kept saying that it was his original idea, and now he's nominated for Best Original Screenplay Oscar!
I guess it has been bothering me so much because we've had so many interviews with GdT here where I live, because he filmed TSOW here. He said he loves our city so much (part of Crimson Peak was also filmed here), that he wants to build a film studio here! So between our tv news coverage and our newspaper, there's been so much local interest in him. And now, with the Oscars coming up, there will be even more.
So if it sounds like I have some weird obsession with this, I probably do! I love writing and I always have. When I was in high school, we once had an English assignment of writing a short story. The teacher chose a few students to read theirs to the class. One girl read a story that was the plot of a Jodie Foster movie I had watched on tv a few days earlier, The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane. I couldn't believe it when everyone, including the teacher, praised her story. I stayed behind after class, and went up to the teacher to let her know that the girl had stolen the story from a movie. I expected the teacher to be shocked or outraged or even a bit bothered, but she said it didn't matter. How did it not matter?? She hadn't just borrowed some ideas from the movie - she told us the plot of the movie!
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