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Post by sgev1977 on May 20, 2018 22:52:54 GMT
For me the Irish guy is a scammer (he not just tricked Eleanor but founded a cult and have his own followers) and scammers are amorally smart. Not necessarily geniuses but they need to have certain degree of intelligence at least to identify vulnerable people.
Apparently Johnny is based in a few real life people (according to the actor) but in Edward St Aubyn’s New Yorker profile it’s mentioned he is actually a childhood friend who is a few years older than the writer. He wasn’t actually an adict and he did things like what we saw Johnny doing in this episode. He is a psychoanalyst as he father was and was the father the one who “saved” him. St Aubyn asked his friend for an appointment with his father and he confessed to him. The two friends had to momentarily end their friendship because the therapy asked for it. I guess in certain way Johnny is a mix of the father and the son with some adict friend(s)!
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Post by sgev1977 on May 20, 2018 23:54:47 GMT
Another thing: the “you see? It’s not as easy as you think” by Jennifer Jason Leigh at the end it’s very creepy. I don’t remember it from the book (I think in the book Bridget actually escape that day but I’m not sure!). As Jason Leigh said people would judge Eleanor and deservedly but undoubtedly she is defending herself there. I don’t know how they will adapt the next book but in it a more mature Bridget find herself in a slightly less harrowing but still similar situation. She is trapped in a marriage without love; Her little girl is not sexually abused but it’s unhappy and is humiliated by a ghastly Princess Margaret; Herself is humiliated by the infidelity of her husband. But at the end she is brave enough to take the right decision and finally escape WITH her daughter. I think the worst error committed by Eleanor is told in the last book and I’m guessing it will be emphasized here considering the flashback in the first episode with Jason Leigh waking up her kid very early and Cumberbatch saying “I do want to go. Very much” with his deep adult male voice (It’s very heartbreaking!). She eventually run away from her abusive husband but she left her kid behind. I imagine the scene we saw is she saying goodbye to her son and we will see it in context in later episodes.
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Post by roverpup on May 21, 2018 0:59:43 GMT
"For me the Irish guy is a scammer (he not just tricked Eleanor but founded a cult and have his own followers) and scammers are amorally smart. Not necessarily geniuses but they need to have certain degree of intelligence at least to identify vulnerable people."
To me all scammers have to do is attract people less intelligent/naive than they are, to get followers. That doesn't make them necessarily clever. Look at the Sophie Septics - I wouldn't call them smart but they do attract some followers. And sometimes it is more a case of the followers seeking the scammers out because of something lacking in their lives.
:-))
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Post by sgev1977 on May 21, 2018 10:44:32 GMT
I don’t know. I assumed Seamus didn’t believe the things he said. That he was there just for the money when people who believe in conspiracy theories do. In their case, I think it’s a question of some psychological issue. They maybe have a connection with the followers in the sense that they need to believe in bonkers stuff to feel they have some worth as persons but scammers are another completely different psychological case. I think you need to be charismatic but also smart enough to convince people of giving you their money and to identity the individuals who have the necessary to believe in something extraordinary.
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Post by miriel68 on May 25, 2018 17:39:02 GMT
I re-watched first two episodes with my friend yesterday. She loved them as much as I do, but then we had an interesting discussion. She hasn't read the books and had quite a different perception of some things. For example, she didn't realize Patrick is supposed to be so young in the "Bad News": she thought he was about thirty (B. certainly doesn't look 40 there, but neither 22) and she judged his behavior accordingly. seeing him as one who is probably beyond redemption. And she was quite convinced that Patrick is indeed a little bag of shit.
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Post by roverpup on May 27, 2018 2:32:31 GMT
Just finished Some Hope - breathtaking, beautiful and so very heartbreaking (and yet somehow liberating) all at the same time.
They handled the whole idea of the enormity of Patrick's trauma perfectly. You could feel it building up throughout the episode. BC was so tense and on edge all along but when he finally did let loose and tell Johnny about his father' sexual assaults on him there was such a palpable release that permeated his whole demeanour. And what a great job Prasanna Puwanarajah did as Johnny! The perfect foil for BC's emotional wrought Patrick. More thoughts later but for now I just want to bask in the glory of what I just watched!!
:-))
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Post by sgev1977 on May 27, 2018 2:50:16 GMT
I think the adaptation is phenomenal. It’s so faithful to the books and at the same time very cinematic! So beautiful! And BC’s performance is so complex. If people weren’t amazed with his explosive turn in Bad News surely they would be with the way his character change and madure here. He is now ready to deal with his past here so it’s another Patrick and BC’s performance shows it. He is very subtle and layered. The kind of performance some say he can’t do it (but there are actually a few examples: TTSS, Wreckers, The Child in Time, etc. that moaners just ignore because “he always plays Sherlock!”) This role surely shows his wide range as an actor!
I think part of the “liberation” is that for the first time the evil is named. Patrick directly said he was sexually abused. There is not any suggestion or symbolism like in the other two episodes just him liberating himself of the threat of his father. He no longer has fear of him. The books were very different in this regard because the rape was very explicit but here the confession felt much more cathartic even when it was shorter.
Also I love that poor waiter!
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Post by queenzod on May 27, 2018 3:47:49 GMT
“Do we look like fucking children?” 😂
Anyway, I’m incredibly depressed after watching this one. Yes, Patrick is moving along in his healing, sharing, which is very important in an addict in recovery, to bring the secrets out of the past and look at them and receive comfort and understanding. But that party was horrendous! I got so caught up in the terribleness of all those people, their banal existences, their boredom and pettiness, their endless wanting of substances to make them feel better that I wanted to scream. I do see a glimmer of hope for Patrick, but my god those people were awful. No wonder he didn’t want to go.
Harriet was fabulous as PM. “Wipe.” <shudder>
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Post by mllemass on May 27, 2018 4:21:43 GMT
I remember that reaction when I read the book - these are the most horrible people in the world! And the book has even more examples of their horribleness. I remember thinking that it wasn't just Patrick's father and his friends, but rather a huge group of wealthy entitled creeps. I actually felt relieved when that book ended because I couldn't stand the company of any of those people any more.
I am not able to relate to Patrick's drug addiction, but I have to say that his reaction to seeking therapy and finally admitting what his father had done was so painfully accurate. It was so subtle and so perfect - when he sat at the back of the room during Johnny's group meeting, listening to strangers telling their stories that were very much like his own. There was that brief moment of recognition and relief, and that's exactly how it really does happen. It's something I could relate to, and it was beautifully done.
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Post by roverpup on May 27, 2018 16:34:10 GMT
I think the adaptation is phenomenal. It’s so faithful to the books and at the same time very cinematic! So beautiful! And BC’s performance is so complex. If people weren’t amazed with his explosive turn in Bad News surely they would be with the way his character change and madure here. He is now ready to deal with his past here so it’s another Patrick and BC’s performance shows it. He is very subtle and layered. The kind of performance some say he can’t do it (but there are actually a few examples: TTSS, Wreckers, The Child in Time, etc. that moaners just ignore because “he always plays Sherlock!”) This role surely shows his wide range as an actor! I think part of the “liberation” is that for the first time the evil is named. Patrick directly said he was sexually abused. There is not any suggestion or symbolism like in the other two episodes just him liberating himself of the threat of his father. He no longer has fear of him. The books were very different in this regard because the rape was very explicit but here the confession felt much more cathartic even when it was shorter. Also I love that poor waiter! It was very cinematic and yet managed to keep the essence of the book entirely! Amazing! And you are perfectly correct in noting its beauty! The colours were so super-saturated they just popped! I loved the visual contrasts made with the preparations for the dinner and the NA meeting. And not only visual contrasts but thematic ones as well - with the NA meeting being a place where raw honesty was the goal and emotions were being openly exposed to try and help heal people from every walk of life, and the party where everything was done under a veneer of societal “properness” (with the accepted way to behave around “royalty”) and yet underneath it was all so toxic, deceitful and nasty (done in mind to mask any true emotions). Patrick is the reluctant observer in both of these situations - off to the side, taking it all in and trying to sort things out for himself. And I loved the scene with Chilly Willy!! You can practically see the lightbulb shine over Patrick’s head when he is talking to Mr. Chilly Willy. BC’s facial expressions (actually all of his body language in that scene) were so intricate - responding to every bit of information gleaned in that conversation with Willy - the news of Mrs. Willy’s death by overdose, the fact that Chilly actually had a life-skill of being a musician which was being wasted when he was a drug addict, the revelation that there was a life after drugs. And the flow of the episode!! It just carried you along at just the right pace!! God - I could go on and on about this episode! It was marvelous from top to bottom, from start to finish! I am going to watch it again today and just revel in it... :-))
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