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Post by queenzod on Sept 11, 2019 16:54:59 GMT
Perhaps it’s my naïveté, but it seems to me that any election that’s been provably demonstrated to have been won by outright lies and deceit should be negated. It’s one thing to micro target voters (Obama), and another to micro target absolute lies to a vulnerable population (Trump, Cummings).
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Post by sgev1977 on Sept 11, 2019 17:55:03 GMT
But what if that "vulnerable" population wants to believe those lies? If polls are to be believed (and obvioulsy there are reasons not to..) then, in certain cases, they will vote again for the same!
You can't ban the vote of those people. Maybe you can admonish the liars if you have laws about it but those voters would still be there!
IMHO it's the opposition who should work in trying to gain those people's votes. Of course, I'm not saying the Democrats should scream we Mexicans are the ones to blame for everything wrong in America, for example, but to listen to them, finding solutions and explain them without patronizing them how those politicians are using scapegoats to gain their votes. The problem is that the division is huge and people seem to be living in bubbles!
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Post by queenzod on Sept 11, 2019 18:14:16 GMT
Agreed it’s a lack of education, combined with fear mongering. In the US, the right has been chipping away at education for decades, resulting in an under-educated public with no critical thinking skills. Yes, some people want to believe the lies, but many more were duped, plain and simple. Our populace is under-educated, over medicated, over sexed, and seems to exist on a diet of entertainment, fear and lies. It’s the Roman equivalent of bread & circuses. The media seems to delight in obfuscating the problem. And the elected officials who could do something about it are dithering, doing nothing while our democracy gets flushed away.
I’ve lost hope. 😟
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Post by sgev1977 on Sept 11, 2019 21:03:43 GMT
It's worldwide, tho.
We live in the richest state in Mexico. The second one with the best literary rate behind the capítal. And still people voted for an awful candidate 4 years ago. Why? Because he was independent! The first one elected in the whole country. I know educated people who voted for him just because they were/are tired of traditional parties. It was a protest vote that totally worked against the voters. There weren't even a clear ideology there just sickness of the same old ways. He is populist but I think mostly it were people who had have enough. I doubt he would win again, tho.
In the case of Brexit and Trump, there is a clear ideology but I think behind it there is the same disappointment with more traditional candidates and politics. The extreme right just took advantage of the situation, especially in the cases of people that feel forgotten by the left or the establishment in general.
In Mexico, actually won the left, tho. A populist candidate, yes, but from the left.
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Post by queenzod on Sept 11, 2019 21:23:30 GMT
I think our politicians (right or left) are not capable of dealing with all the problems we as a species have created. Plus, for most of the developed world, we’re in late stage capitalism, coupled by the climate crisis which is a smash and grab for lots of people, giant corporations, and the corrupt. It behooves them to keep the people in a state of fear and confusion, so they’re too distracted to witness the greed, graft and corruption happening under their noses.
So, you’re right, sgev. I think everyone is fed up with the status quo and wants change at a fundamental level. But we’re being attacked on all sides by specious claims, whataboutism, fear mongering, etc. It’s difficult to know the best course of action and who to put your trust in.
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Post by onebluestocking on Sept 12, 2019 14:15:45 GMT
Plus quick, easy answers ("build a wall!") are always more appealing to people than nuanced discussions. That's why all politicians have to lie about what they realistically plan to accomplish, if they want to be elected. Of course, Trump is beyond the pale. I saw an article saying he lies an average of 13 times a day.
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Post by ellie on Sept 12, 2019 14:58:27 GMT
On that general topic, I’ve just finished watching “The Loudest Voice”, the mini series about Roger Ailes, founder of Fox News. It had its flaws but it did a good job in showing how Ailes pioneered the use of fake news in mainstream media and played a large part in getting Trump elected. V scary stuff.
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Post by queenzod on Sept 12, 2019 16:57:56 GMT
My current proposal is if any politician is caught in a lie by an independent, fact-checking organization, they have to pay $25,000 to their opponent’s party. (It used to be $5,000 but I’ve recently upped it.) That’d hit them where it hurts. 😁
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Post by onebluestocking on Sept 13, 2019 14:04:24 GMT
Trump would just claim that the organization was biased, fake news.
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Post by queenzod on Sept 13, 2019 15:42:44 GMT
Doesn’t matter what he’d claim. Truth is truth. 😃
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