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Post by cassandra on Aug 25, 2018 16:13:09 GMT
Milemass, we’re on the same side. I said HW is a predator. And you’re right, I was being judge mental, but I tried to put it less strongly than some of the other comments. My point was that we don’t know what the dynamics were between HW and the women, so we can’t assume that some of them are jumping on a bandwagon, unlike what others here are contending.
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Post by ellie on Aug 25, 2018 16:27:44 GMT
I don’t think you’re in the minority Milemass. Most of the comments on here are supportive of your point of view. I support your view that HW is a horrible individual guilty of appalling behaviour. The only place we differ is that I question some of the women’s stories and you don’t. I just happen to think believing every accusation without question is a dangerous approach to take to any situation.
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Post by MagdaFR on Aug 25, 2018 18:17:26 GMT
I think some people are forgetting something important. Weinstein is 6 feet (183 cm) tall and weights more than a 100 kg. Women surely would feel threatened by him even if he didn't said explicitly he was going to harm or punish them if they didn't do what he wanted. I think McGowan said she was afraid. Others said they froze.
The situation wasn't symmetrical. They say no to him and he continue insisting and I prefer not to imagine HW advancing towards me, even if I were totally against doing anything.
Women are afraid not only of being raped but of being beaten AND raped.
The situation wasn´t symmetrical either because he was a man with a lot of power, even if he didn't said explicitly he was going to punish them if they didn't do what he wanted, they obviously suspected it was going to happen. And we know it did happened. HW spread everywhere that some actresses were difficult to work with.
Many of these were not situations where women could go filming/recording what was happening, the cellphones with cameras weren't in the market.
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Post by queenzod on Aug 25, 2018 18:52:51 GMT
I believe the women, too. At the same time, I hold open the possibility that maybe some of the stories aren’t as cut and dried as they’re being portrayed. And that not all the women felt they had an option to walk out or turn him down. That option might have existed, but they didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t take it, for any number of reasons. That’s all. I think we all agree that HW is a disgusting pig of a human being. I don’t understsnd how Georgina Chapman married him at all. Ew.
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Post by ellie on Aug 25, 2018 18:55:26 GMT
You make good points Magda. I know its a complex situation. I guess I’m just one of those people who never takes anything on face value. I must admit that my first reaction in a situation like that would be to run for the door and think about the consequences later!!!
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Post by ellie on Aug 25, 2018 18:58:25 GMT
I believe the women, too. At the same time, I hold open the possibility that maybe some of the stories aren’t as cut and dried as they’re being portrayed. And that not all the women felt they had an option to walk out or turn him down. That option might have existed, but they didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t take it, for any number of reasons. That’s all. I think we all agree that HW is a disgusting pig of a human being. I don’t understsnd how Georgina Chapman married him at all. Ew. I was just talking about the women I saw in the documentary. As I said earlier I don’t doubt other women had different experiences. As for someone marrying HW. Seems these guys always find someone willing to marry them. Often several someones. |
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Post by MagdaFR on Aug 25, 2018 19:21:16 GMT
I believe the women, too. At the same time, I hold open the possibility that maybe some of the stories aren’t as cut and dried as they’re being portrayed. And that not all the women felt they had an option to walk out or turn him down. That option might have existed, but they didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t take it, for any number of reasons. That’s all. I think we all agree that HW is a disgusting pig of a human being. I don’t understsnd how Georgina Chapman married him at all. Ew. Well, I think HW could be very charming when he wanted. I was remembering the story of Nate Parker's rape. How he invited another guy to fuck the girl and who paid the consequences was the girl who ended commiting suicide. Even with all the pressure from the university, harassement by Parker and his friends, etc. she tried to do the right thing and what happened? I'm going to be always on the woman/children side when it is a man who sexually harass them. It is not physically comparable that a man rapes a woman/child. He has more strength. He hurts them physycally and emotionally. Statistically it is known that the rate of wrongly accussed men is insignificant. |
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Post by ellie on Aug 25, 2018 19:47:14 GMT
True Magda but all allegations of sexual harassment aren’t about rape. Some are much more complex and it isn’t always that simple to determine what exactly happened. For example if the woman reports it at the time there is likely to be physical evidence of rape. Much more tricky is a situation where a woman makes an allegation of sexual harassment against a man where either no physical contact took place or she agreed to participate in some form of sexual contact that did not involve actual sex of any description. Investigators have to examine the situation closely to see whether there may be a malicious intent due to some other issue or whether the woman was indeed ok with the situation at the time but has since changed her mind for some reason which is pertinent either to the defense or prosecution. Only when such investigations have taken place can they determine whether the woman is telling the truth. I think that is fair enough. Otherwise you will have innocent men maliously accused of sexual harassment by women with a score to settle and who know they will be automatically believed. This does happen, there are several such examples on record. I just feel that we must not go down a route where allegations are not properly investigated. Men are not all monsters and not all women are honest.
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Post by mllemass on Aug 25, 2018 19:48:55 GMT
That’s sad but true! And those someones are usually decades younger.
I was thinking about why women marry or stay married to abusive men. I remember a presentation I attended at a conference years ago. A police officer was speaking about how to recognize the signs of domestic abuse. He showed us a film (a dramatization) of the typical scenario the police encounter. They showed a couple screaming at each other and the man smacking her repeatedly in the face. The police pound on the door and the woman answers. The police say that a neighbour called them to report a disturbance. The husband says no, everything is fine. The police turn to the woman, who has obviously been crying, and she also says that all is fine. The police leave. Then the film showed us what happened next - the husband apologized for losing his temper, said he loved her, brought her flowers to make up for what he’d done, and promised to never do it again. Until he did it again - maybe she served him something he didn’t like or forgot to iron his shirt. So he blows up again, blames her for making him so angry, hits her, the neighbours call the police. Etc.
But there was good news! The police officer told us that the laws have changed and abused spouses no longer have to report the abuse for the police to take action. They showed us that same scenario - the man smacking his wife, the police pounding on the door - but this time, the police arrest the husband, even while the wife is protesting. If the police suspect that domestic abuse is taking place, they can now act on it without the terrified wife “telling” on her husband.
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Post by ellie on Aug 25, 2018 20:42:00 GMT
You often find women who go from one abusive partner to the next. It is quite a recognized pattern of behaviour and quite difficult to break out of apparently. I have a friend who is a senior social worker in charge of an area of social services that incorporates domestic abuse and she tells me it is soul destroying to see how many women keep on either going back to or taking up with new violent partners.
The psychology of it all is quite fascinating.
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