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Post by onebluestocking on Apr 4, 2019 4:08:15 GMT
He has always been very touchy-feely, so I figured it was just a matter of time. I'm frustrated that the very much-needed #metoo movement has ballooned from horrible things like Harvey Weinstein, to benign back pats and the like. On the one hand, touching women in a professional setting is unnecessary, obviously bothers at least some of them, and he needs to stop it. On the other, the incidents I've heard of do not warrant damaging his career. It just leads to a resentful backlash, and the stereotype that women are running around accusing or suing every man in sight.
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Post by queenzod on Apr 4, 2019 8:15:39 GMT
I have always thought it was incumbent upon the person being touched to speak up. Not in every case, of course, but with Biden those women could have said, “oh, please don’t touch me,” or “I don’t like being touched.” How is Biden supposed to know if it bothers someone if they don’t speak up? Likewise with sexual harassment at work. Speak up!
I know women are “trained” to accept encroachment into their physical space as a matter of course, but it’s well past time to learn something different. People need to be clear about what their boundaries are.
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Post by sgev1977 on Apr 4, 2019 12:13:36 GMT
According to Variety this is the response of Amazon to Allen's lawsuit: variety.com/2019/biz/news/amazon-woody-allen-lawsuit-rebuttal-1203180327/amp/?__twitter_impression=trueThat's so weak! If I understand well, without an actual legal case against him nor the excuse of not knowing his past when they hired him the only reason to fire him was because he has the wrong opinion! And because he is a "pariah"! I know hating men like him is cool but the consequences of taking serious Netflix sayings could be abhorrent!
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Post by onebluestocking on Apr 4, 2019 14:11:06 GMT
He just needs to stop. Whether it bothers individual women or not, it's never professional behavior. Notice there are no men complaining that he kissed them on the head!
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Post by mllemass on Apr 4, 2019 15:34:24 GMT
Enough of the ridiculous “witch hunt” comparisons! What’s happening now is not like a witch hunt because witches didn’t exist, whereas these sexual harassers are very real!
And winking at women at work has never been ok! Not even in the olden days! Just because some men did this (or anything) in the 1950’s and the women smiled politely doesn’t mean they ever liked it or thought it was appropriate. They thought the men were creepy, and they still think that.
I’d love to see a similar situation where Woody Allen winks at men in his office.
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Post by roverpup on Apr 4, 2019 17:01:05 GMT
He just needs to stop. Whether it bothers individual women or not, it's never professional behavior. Notice there are no men complaining that he kissed them on the head! Apparently he was just as hands on with men. I think this Biden stuff is politically motivated by people who want to sabotage his future. Someone is trying their darnedest to make something out of a complete nothing to make sure he isn't in the running come 2020. Some people are just touchy-feely type people. I understand completely because I am one of those people too. I've always been (and always will be) a very tactile person. There's nothing wrong with being that way.
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Post by queenzod on Apr 4, 2019 17:30:12 GMT
No, there’s nothing wrong with being touchy feely. Lots of people are. But, there’s people who don’t like to be touchy feeled, and so I think a quick check before you go in for the touch is required these days. Unless you know them and know they like it, of course.
I think a president can do fine with a meaningful handshake, a clap on the shoulder, a warm hand on the forearm, that kind of thing. But stay away from a rear approach, anything to do with the hair, and lingering caresses of the shoulders.
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Post by onebluestocking on Apr 4, 2019 17:39:11 GMT
Yes, he is handsy with everyone, but he doesn't kiss men on their heads or necks, stroke their faces or sniff their hair, as he does with women and young girls. He keeps within society's rules for manly affection, i.e. a hug or hand on shoulder. (It looks like he is whispering something to Franken.) That meme misses the point that the women aren't complaining about a simple hug or touch on the arm. And let's face it, even if kissing someone on the head isn't sexual, it is really patronizing. Biden has now said he will honor people's personal space in the future, so hopefully he will. One woman said he rubbed noses with her, and she was afraid he was leaning in for a kiss. There have been "Creepy Uncle Joe" YouTube compilations about him for years, how long will he deny knowing that it is strange? People have lots of unprofessional natural inclinations that must be overcome at work. Cut it out, Joe! Here's an interesting article about it: www.vox.com/2019/4/2/18290345/joe-biden-lucy-flores-amy-lappos
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Post by sgev1977 on Apr 4, 2019 23:53:01 GMT
Enough of the ridiculous “witch hunt” comparisons! What’s happening now is not like a witch hunt because witches didn’t exist, whereas these sexual harassers are very real! And winking at women at work has never been ok! Not even in the olden days! Just because some men did this (or anything) in the 1950’s and the women smiled politely doesn’t mean they ever liked it or thought it was appropriate. They thought the men were creepy, and they still think that. I’d love to see a similar situation where Woody Allen winks at men in his office. Witches doesn't exist but witch hunting do. I agreed that it's not correct to wink at women in the office but that's not equal to sexual abuse. I think that's one of the problems with the Me Too movement, it put everything in the same bag! A guy winking at women in the office should be called for it but I don't think his life should be destroyed just for it! Also I don't see how it could help to the movement to castigate in a disproportionated way minor faults. Why not just explain it's uncomfortable for women instead of asking for firings? The only thing that extreme reactions provoke is resentment. The way to change people's mentality is with rational discussions. Anyway we can agreed or not with Allen but saying his opinions (which he kind of retracted, by the way) is the reason Netflix didn't fulfilled with their deal is crazy! An awful precedent but mostly a very silly excuse for a big company with surely powerful lawyers! I haven't read too much about it but apparently they also excused themselves saying that important actors doesn't want to work with him and named Cate Blanchett who actually defended him, as an example!
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Post by mllemass on Apr 5, 2019 1:54:48 GMT
I agree! But this is just an example of the “what ifs?” we keep hearing about from (mostly) men who are now taking a good look at their own bad behaviour. I have yet to read about an innocent man being ruined be a false claim in this #metoo movement. Having Netflix cut ties with Woody Allen is not going to ruin him or his career.
I remember the uproar years ago when workplaces had to implement sexual harassment policies: “So now I can’t even compliment my female co-worker’s body without getting into trouble!” and “There aren’t even any women working here, so why can’t we keep telling dirty jokes? They build morale!” and “Our workers love the centrefold pictures we have hanging up! And none of the women have complained, so why can’t we keep them?” We eventually moved from behaviours having to stop if anyone complained, to behaviours having to stop even if no one complained. That applies to racism and sexism and any other -ism, too. And that’s the way it has remained, and people have managed to carry on!
Back to Biden - he’ll be fine. Trump was guilty of far worse and still got voted in as president. I’m not a touchy-feely person, but a lot of people are and I have no problem with it, especially if they do it with everyone and not just women.
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