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Post by mllemass on Nov 10, 2017 18:43:56 GMT
But that already happens. Honours and awards and titles have been rescinded if the recipient is later deemed unworthy. As someone with a background in the arts, I'm perfectly fine with it.
The problem here, though, is that innocent people unknowingly became involved in a project with a predator. As an example, if HW decides to start up a new production company, anyone he involves will now know who he really is and if they still want to work with or for him, they should certainly be able to do so. I'm not trying to stop art from being created - I just want the artists to be honest about who they are. There's a lot of objectionable art out there, and I'm sure it finds its audience somehow.
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Post by MagdaFR on Nov 10, 2017 19:18:32 GMT
And if it’s right to erase current stuff then why is it ok to leave historic stuff untouched? I don't believe the re-shooting by Ridley Scott is because of moral considerations. I maybe a cynic but I think that the problem is that if they released it with Kevin Spacey in it is going to flop. And I understand Ridley Scott and others: they put money, work, effort in it. They want it to go well and that is not going to happen with Kevin Spacey in it. It would follow the Current War fate. The actors promoting it would be in the same situation like BC, Michael Shannon would be if TCW were released on the 24th November as planned. I think it is ridiculous to erase anything already done. That or changing the producer's name don't change anything. I have to say that I am on the fence towards boycotting movies or other kind of entertainment because of the people who created it. I didn't watch any film by Allen (just his relationship with his wife/daughter is sufficiently creepy), Polanski (now there are 11 women who are accusing him of being molested/raped when they were girls) and lately Chaplin. I don't care if I don't watch their films anymore. They molested children and the films are essentially from them. I could not watch Manhattan again without thinking what Allen really is. On the other hand I've been questioning myself why I didn't mind watching Manchester by the Sea which has Casey Affleck as lead actor. I think it is because there are levels of harassment and he maybe a jerk but he didn't rape anyone, the women were adults who were confident enough to sue him and that was like 10 years ago and there are no new stories (to my knowledge) about him. So perhaps he changed. In the case of Kevin Spacey (today I read new accusation) I never watched House of Cards and I can live without watching it. I don't know if you read the story by Richard Dreyfuss' son. He says that before KS groping him he was all the time thinking how nice he was. I think that he is likable because he presents himself as somebody very nice and he's such a great actor. I doubt he'll be doing movies/series for a while so I'll have no problems on deciding what to do. I think my line is drawn with pedophiles and I include there those who go after teenagers. What is really the difference if the victims are 10 years old or 13? I frankly don't understand mllemass reasoning about deleting the producer's name. I think (sorry) they are just excuses to continue seeing a series or movie you like. Today there was an accusation againt Gary Goddard by Anthony Edwards. I hope they make public all the pedophiles. medium.com/@anthonyedwards/yes-mom-there-is-something-wrong-f2bcf56434b9 |
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Post by mllemass on Nov 10, 2017 19:38:13 GMT
I don't know if you're asking about my reason to continue watching the show, or the show's reason for deleting his name. When I heard about TCW being held back until 2018, my next thought was about Project Runway. The very next episode had HW's name deleted from the credits, but his brother's was there. And I checked last night's episode and didn't see any Weinstein mention at all. I'm happy to continue watching a show that decided to cut ties with him.
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Post by ellie on Nov 10, 2017 20:16:17 GMT
I guess we all have our own places at which we draw the line which is partly why I resent Organisations making my decisions for me.
I won’t watch Roman Polankski’s work because I think the guy is truly evil but as for the others mentioned here, yes I think I would still watch most of their work if it interested me. Right now neither Allen or Spacey have been proven to be paedophiles and Weinstein has not been proven to be a rapist. Maybe I might feel differently if that situation changes at some future point.
But I don’t know, this is hardly the first time this sort of situation has arisen, Cary Grant was widely rumoured to be a Necrophiliac, Errol Flynn stood trial for statutory rape and Walt Disney was rumoured to be a Nazi. So, you know, look into pretty much any movie/tv show from the beginning of the industry till now and you will probably find a reason why you shouldn’t watch it.
It really is a moral minefield. But one which I would prefer to try to navigate my own route across than have my ethics dictated to me by movie and TV companies who are not exactly in a position to be dictating to anyone on that subject.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 10, 2017 23:18:32 GMT
About Kevin Spacey being likable and nice, there was a recent comment by one of his co-stars in Baby Driver who said he was disappointed by him not because any sexual harrasment (he didn't know about it) but because he was a bully.
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 11, 2017 12:44:18 GMT
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Post by sgev1977 on Nov 21, 2017 23:43:04 GMT
I think this article about how separating personal biography and art is really good: www.theparisreview.org/blog/2017/11/20/art-monstrous-men/Also there is this interesting part about how the author felt personal betrayed by Woody Allen because even when his confirmed "crime" (not counting the rumors and speculation about Dylan just the Soon-Yi affair) was slightly less awful than Bill Cosby's or Roman Polanski's, he was the one who felt more close to the audience thanks to his intellectual everyman persona. Probably some people felt the same with Cosby. After all he was much more audience friendly and a TV celebrity but it's an interesting idea anyway. |
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Post by roverpup on Nov 22, 2017 2:09:57 GMT
Interesting read. Thanks for posting it.
She seemed very conflicted about separating the art from the acts of a monster. Even by the end of the piece.
She lost me when she started down the rabbit-hole about how essential it was for great writers to be “writing monsters”. Poppycock (from personal, first hand experiencce). Still she did have a point about how being a “finisher” is a truly hard thing for a writer to be.
And it was refreshing for once reading something about the writing process from someone other than a fanfic writer (who, are not, despite what they all seem to think as they strain their arms patting themselves on their backs, true authors IMO). Getting a publishing house to edit/publish your manuscript is the ABSOLUTE hardest thing an author ever does (on the same plane with being a “finisher”). Until someone has gone through this process they can’t be considered an “author” in my books.
:-))
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Post by queenzod on Nov 22, 2017 2:23:36 GMT
Some fan fictions writers have written beautifully crafted pieces of literature, woven complex plots, developed characters, and mastered dialogue in novel length form. It seems a bit snobby to dismiss them as “not true authors” just because they haven’t been published by whom you deem authentic or worthy.
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Post by roverpup on Nov 22, 2017 2:31:24 GMT
Maybe, but I stand by my opinion that the publishing and editing process (which is brutal) is something that every writer should go through before labeling themselves “authors”. It is something that really has to be experienced and I don’t know any author who doesn’t bond with other writers for having gone though it.
I am not denegrating fanfic writers as wordsmiths (I have written a number of fanfics myself and yes some of them were of book length and complexity) but after the writing, posting it to the web isn’t anything like having to get that manuscript published. It took my husband 10 years to get his first book published.
:-))
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