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Post by roverpup on Aug 13, 2017 20:09:40 GMT
I am not sure why there seems to be a predilection for comparing TCW to TFE. Very different films and very different circumstances surrounding the release of TFE. Also BC was at a very different place in his career.
And if I am wrong please correct me, but TCW isn't opening TIFF is it? It is in a totally different slot when the premiere will be shown. TIFF has been a place where lots of successful films have premiered, so I don't know why there is so much apprehension around the fact that TCW is slotted to have its world premiere there.
From Wikipedia -
I don't know what the budget is for TCW. Does anyone know a ballpark figure for it? Financial success depends upon a cost/profit differential - not just on how much money a movie makes. But there have been incidences of really successful movies (Oscar winners etc.) not making a huge profit but being a stepping stone for the makers, directors, actors, etc. to gain attention and future work from their critical success.
The Current War has someone who I consider to be a very fresh, innovative director and it also has some pretty well respected actors involved in it who have solid film careers over a number of years (Cumberbatch and Shannon).
I am aprehensive about bringing this next bit up but it has been bugging me for a while so here it goes -
I don't want this to be taken the wrong way but it is completely puzzling to me that there seems to be such a dismal outlook (at least it seems that way to me when I read comments on here) on this forum for this film even before any credible reviews come out??? Why? Because of what a couple of overgrown dickheads said on some awards forum?
Honestly, the only place I have heard more negative chatter than on here about TCW are the Septic sites! Obviously their reasons for being downers about this film isn't what motivates the people on here, so please enlighten me (and I mean that without the least bit of sarcasm) as to why there is so little positivity for this movie?
I really want to understand that point of view more because I am really curious as to why this feeling is out there, owning to the fact that my feelings are so completely opposite - I am very excited with the subject matter, I think it is a wonderful opportunity for BC and could further consolidate his success and I really can't wait to see what Alfonso Gomez-Rejon has in store for us as a director of such talent! And I actually think that TCW premiering at TIFF is a pretty good thing!!
Thanks.
:-))
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Post by coolclearwaters on Aug 13, 2017 20:43:15 GMT
I think part of it is that people are just bored waiting for something new from Benedict. Fortunately, there will be a lot of new performances fairly soon. I also think that some people are not interested in the subject matter and therefore assume it won't do well. I am excited about the subject myself, so I'm hopeful.
We really don't know anything except that The Weinstein Company has decided to make it their Oscar season release. By the way, I never understood why people thought the previous release date was so bad. It wasn't. Several Oscar winners have been released on that date.
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Post by sgev1977 on Aug 13, 2017 23:15:16 GMT
Without wanting to sound negative, because the comparison isn't related to anything else, but the faith being expressed in TCW is only relative to MM. Frankly, although no-one wanted to acknowledge it here, it hadn't been looking terribly good that HW had apparently had it coming second to MM before. And promotional possibilities are also factors that might be coming into play now. BC promoted TIG, as presumably he was contractually obliged, but he didn't indulge HW in actual Oscar campaigning at all. If he had, maybe the result might have been different. He gave Eddie Redmayne a free hand which ER took full advantage of. Are we supposing, with his full schedule, that he will campaign for TCW this time when he didn't for TIG? On the other hand HW has the precedent of TIG doing really well anyway, and knowing what little BC does do re promotion will be effective, in comparison with Joaquin Phoenix who hates all promotion and is lousy at it. I don't know how good Rooney Mara would be at campaigning for MM (she does have 2 nominations already), but TCW also has a potential Oscar campaigner in Michael Shannon. These other issues might be relevant, although opening MM at Easter would seem to me to be an obvious thing to do for best effect, other than for the Oscars. I'm not saying it's a good movie. I haven't watched it! Maybe it's horrible. I'm not trying to defend something I haven't watched. But Weinstein changing dates is something EXTREMELY common. He does it almost every year. Just look my posts when it was announced MM would be released in November and TCW in December. I posted the dates weren't necessarily definitive and couldn't be a decision based in quality simple because TCW wasn't a finished movie yet! More recently MM has just disappeared of the conversation by people who matters (not random award forum posters). It wasn't predicted by any journalist for TIFF and Deadline even said Weinstein told to them he has faith in TCW since Cannes. No mention of MM, which probably was finished by then and actually some footage was presented there. BC campaigned for Weinstein. He traveled almost all his weekends to the USA. He was on Time cover for a second time in just two years and went to a few relevant events. Thank god he didn't do a Daniel Day-Lewis and went to the Senate nor was the crazy cartoon character that haters belived he was. Maybe "he didn't kiss all the babies he was asked to" (his words!) but he was there for the company. He did his homework. And campaigning helps and maybe it helped Redmayne (we can't never know for sure) but not always wins the one who campaigned most. Sometimes even wins people who don't. If Weinstein were so disappointed as you think with his (little) participation during the campaign I doubt he would had hired him almost instantly after that experience and in a movie he personally has a producer credit. That's not the case with all his movies. We will see and we will see soon as you say.
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Post by sgev1977 on Aug 13, 2017 23:22:47 GMT
I think part of it is that people are just bored waiting for something new from Benedict. Fortunately, there will be a lot of new performances fairly soon. I also think that some people are not interested in the subject matter and therefore assume it won't do well. I am excited about the subject myself, so I'm hopeful. We really don't know anything except that The Weinstein Company has decided to make it their Oscar season release. By the way, I never understood why people thought the previous release date was so bad. It wasn't. Several Oscar winners have been released on that date. Because we come from the IMDb forums! 😉 It wasn't a bad date it's just the things he uses to do. That's his favorite date for his Oscar film of the year. He normally releases his Quentin Tarantino or another big name director movie in December.
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Post by dreamsincolour on Aug 14, 2017 1:02:05 GMT
I suppose I have to answer you, Roverpup, since I think I'm the only person who's admitted to being slightly less than enthralled re the TCW film. But I'm not, and have never been, someone who thinks anyone should automatically be terribly excited for something just because BC's in it. And I haven't actually been negative, I've just been sitting on the fence about it. And yes, I looked at the negative AW comments from the screening but I didn't give them undue weight. On the other hand, I didn't ignore them either, just because they weren't conveniently to my preference. I actually think that choosing to only perceive or acknowledge information or evidence according to preference (re anything) is extremely foolish. So, no, I'm not going to indulge in pretend super optimism, for the sake of it, just because that's all you apparently want to see. Sorry. I'll be delighted when/if the film gets the preferred fantastic reviews in due course, though. And no, unless something changes, TWC isn't be opening TIFF. As far as I'm aware no-one has suggested it is and I haven't seen any apprehension re it's opening at TIFF either. I'm personally nervous of what it's critical reception will be, but that would be the same re whenever it has its premiere. I would be more concerned for it if it wasn't thought to merit a film festival launch at all. My personal apprehensions re the film stem from having read the script, and from having been left not particularly wanting to see it. I obviously wish it very well, and I'm interested in seeing how Gomez-Rejon handles it, but if it doesn't get great reviews I actually probably won't go to see it. I'm not completely uninterested in the subject, but theoretically I'm more drawn to what I think might be the more cerebral approach of the other version that focusses on the court case. That's blind presumption, of course, since I haven't read the other, but this one is quite visceral even if it doesn't show the actuality of the deaths. For those who've read it, I particularly disliked the personalisation of the poor trusting animals being introduced to the audience by name, to effect, before being led by the hand to their electrocution. I found that a bit sickening! Having read about it and knowing it happened isn't the same thing as watching it so represented. But done well, of course, as per my reaction to just the script, that could/should be very affecting for the cinema audience and might be what makes the film. Not everyone is as squeamish re such things as I am. But because I am that squeamish, I have difficulty in understanding why anyone else would want to see it, hence reservations that the film will get the sort of word of mouth that would encourage a big box office. I'm not sure of that, though, and hope that suspicion is wrong. As has been said multiple times, the reviews will be critical. And re CCW, as far as I was concerned reservations weren't re the supposed December release date, as such, but just re what it theoretically signified in terms of being second pony in the race behind MM. But there was always the potential that might change. Until it did though, that wasn't a given.
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Post by coolclearwaters on Aug 14, 2017 1:56:51 GMT
I agree with this. Some films or TV shows are going to better than others, and some will, inevitably be bad. No actor ever makes only good movies. It's impossible. Maybe John Cazale did, but that's because he died before he could make a bad movie (in my opinion, The Deer Hunter was a bad movie, but I'm not going to nitpick).
People on this board have different tastes and interests, so there is no reason we should all like the same things and we should all feel free to express that. I do think it's probably a good idea to at least wait until reviews or trailers come out to decide that something is going to be bad or bomb.
As for his campaigning for TIG, he was working at the time, but he was everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE promoting that film! It paid off, but it really was excessive. I'm afraid that if I get Alzheimers they're going to find me wandering the streets mumbling that bank notes speech over and over. That is, of course, my own fault. I can't believe I watched and read every #!%$*&^ interview. I will never do that again! As much as I love Benedict, moderation is necessary!
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Post by onebluestocking on Aug 14, 2017 3:32:42 GMT
I haven't read the script yet, but just as an idea, I think it shows a lot of potential. There is the recent cult of interest in Tesla, my son has a comic book about him. And even in a stylistic way, the "steam punk" time period that's popular. IMO the subject matter shows as much promise as TIG, and I see no reason to assume TCW will be less successful. But again, I haven't read it.
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Post by dreamsincolour on Aug 14, 2017 3:33:14 GMT
I don't remember all the details now, and I didn't follow the minutiae anyway, but it wasn't my impression that BC did any real "campaigning" for TIG at all. He wasn't even in the USA, where most of the voters are, except for the odd weekend, to effect, to record for talk shows and things. But that was aimed at encouraging the audience so was normal promotion, it wasn't the "campaigning" that is aimed specifically at the Oscar voters (although there might be some small overlap in effect there). "Campaigning" is going to lots of the special screenings to charm the few voters attending each to try to get their votes. It's going to the dinners and parties arranged for the purpose, in order to personally meet and greet and sweet talk and solicit votes. It's very time consuming and BC didn't do any of that at all. Eddie Redmayne, on the other hand, was there for months going to every voter screening possible.
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Post by coolclearwaters on Aug 14, 2017 3:45:11 GMT
Oh, I know there is a difference between campaigning for awards and promoting a movie. I think what Benedict did was promote the movie, and I'm sure it helped make TIG the success it was. I think people who don't know the difference, or just don't like him, complain about his campaigning. He did an incredible number of interviews at TIFF and did make the rounds of every single talk show in the U.S. I wouldn't have been surprised to see him pop up on some fishing show. Again, it paid off.
I don't understand the concept of campaigning for awards. I would think that it would make the awards seem like less of an honor. I admit, I lose respect for actors who do that.
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Post by onebluestocking on Aug 14, 2017 4:15:43 GMT
Well, a couple of years earlier they'd have found you mumbling "I did the motion capture" over and over. He does tend to repeat himself during film promotion, which isn't just something he does for HW! I would agree that TIG had far more actual PR than the usual $10M budget indie film, but as far as actual Oscar campaigning, I don't remember much except attending that ceremony with the paid-for-in-advance awards (was it called Hollywood Award?) Speaking of budget, I realized I should clarify my previous comment. It's not that I expect TCW necessarily to make back 15 times its budget, or whatever it was that TIG did, or that I would consider it unsuccessful if it didn't. That was huge and very unusual!
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