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Post by mllemass on Jul 31, 2018 16:30:44 GMT
I don’t think he’s a sex offender, either. None of us actually knows him, but it seems like sex offenders just do it without posting jokes about it. I still think that there are topics that should be off-limits for even dark “comedy”. Looking out for children should be everyone’s responsibility.
And yes, for someone who keeps getting described as a brilliant writer, he’s been pretty dumb about all this. To his credit, he’s not attempting to defend what he de did.
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Post by queenzod on Jul 31, 2018 16:48:08 GMT
Why should he defend it? He was wrong and admits it. Personally, I’m glad he’s not saying “aw, I was just joking and y’all should get a sense of humor.” He said what he did was vile and wrong, he’s accepted his firing, but I firmly believe he should be forgiven and everyone should move on. Forgiveness is important.
This whole thing made Disney look like spineless over-reactors who blow with the wind. They could easily have put their (significant) weight behind him and issued a statement saying “we won’t be swayed by internet trolls.” Now they just look like fools.
ps. If you think there are topics that should be off limits, then you’re advocating censorship. Do you not believe in free speech?
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Post by onebluestocking on Jul 31, 2018 18:44:34 GMT
I think there is a difference between saying an offensive joke in one movie, and posting many, many offensive tweets on your own Twitter account, along with taking a job writing offensive jokes.
Baseless accusations won't get anywhere, so I don't see reason to worry about that. JG isn't denying the accusations against him. Any other cases will just have to be figured out individually.
One thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is the idea that racist jokes are immediately a firing offense without question, while pedophile jokes are being defended as "just jokes." Is this because children can't speak up and defend themselves on the internet? I really, really don't want the left associated with pedophilia, and that's what is happening. First, by right wing nutjobs, then by liberals racing to defend James Gunn. He took a chance with offensive speech that harmed his future career. The same twitter jokes would get any one of us fired from a family-friendly company, as well. It's a business, and they made a business decision. He will probably be back when the dust settles. Maybe not for Disney, but the guy is a millionaire with plenty of friends in the industry.
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Post by onebluestocking on Jul 31, 2018 18:48:25 GMT
Free speech means you will not be jailed for speaking out against the government. Not that your employer won't fire you for tweeting jokes about pedophilia.
Look, I don't think he is a pedophile or that there is anything wrong with dark humor. But, if you align your career in that direction, don't be surprised if it causes a problem with a future conservative employer. If he were still with Troma, there would be no problem. Also, hadn't he been criticizing other people for offensive tweets recently? It seems like he overlooked his own twitter history to start jumping on other people, and it came back to bite him.
I don't see a difference between this, and Paula Deen losing her business for admitting she said the n-word 20 years before. If people say offensive things, it can cause a problem at any time if it reflects badly on a future employer. It doesn't matter when you said it, if the controversy about it is happening right now then for your employer, the problem is today!
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Post by ellie on Jul 31, 2018 21:04:38 GMT
I do see the points being made but, nonetheless, do find the social media rush to outrage troublesome. It seems to lack a proper sense of proportion in many instances. Plus I think that allowing posters on social media to decide who should & should not be fired from their jobs is an extremely dangerous practice.
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Post by queenzod on Jul 31, 2018 22:43:56 GMT
Yeah, it’s a complex topic that touches on lots of things happening today. I’m not for censorship, or having someone’s past mistakes follow them around forever, or the rush to judgement based on hateful trolls. Gunn probably shouldn’t have written those tweets, but lots of people shouldn’t have done things they did. If Disney hired him knowing that, they should have stuck by him instead of chucking him out instantly. Lots of bad judgement going on all over.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jul 31, 2018 23:19:44 GMT
I think there is a difference between saying an offensive joke in one movie, and posting many, many offensive tweets on your own Twitter account, along with taking a job writing offensive jokes.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jul 31, 2018 23:22:16 GMT
I do see the points being made but, nonetheless, do find the social media rush to outrage troublesome. It seems to lack a proper sense of proportion in many places bstances. Plus I think that allowing posters on social media to decide who should & should not be fired from their jobs is an extremely dangerous practice. Agreed with this! Twitter shouldn't decide who should be fired! And again this was a practice that began with the left.
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Post by onebluestocking on Aug 1, 2018 5:39:01 GMT
This is why I don't understand all the hand-wringing over this guy. The assumption seems to be that people making racist jokes should be fired for that even if it happened years before. The left has approved of this many times. But now someone should not be fired for pedophile/rape jokes because of freedom of speech? Which is it? And where are we on sexist jokes? They used to be largely overlooked before #metoo, are we okay with retroactive firings of old sexists who say they've changed when confronted about it?
I can easily see both sides. TBH I don't think people should be fired for offending others with their personal opinions or humor, as long as it doesn't effect their actual job. If James Gunn was a babysitter...yes! Film director...no! If Paula Deen was president of the NAACP...yes! TV chef...no! We are all surrounded every day by sexists, racists, and every other kind of deplorable doing their jobs undetected and without issue. BUT at the same time as I've commented before, their employer shouldn't be expected to take the fall for it, either. Whether coming from the internet, letters to the company CEO or to a newspaper editor, or protesters picketing outside their door - bad publicity is bad publicity, and it's understandable if Disney decided it wasn't worth it to make a high profile public stand defending a writer of pedophile/rape jokes. And I think it's hypocritical to apply the "rules" unevenly according to personal tastes (racist jokes...not okay! Pedophile/rape jokes...okay! Stupid, low-class offensive jokes...not okay! Smartly funny offensive jokes...okay!)
It's easy to see what has happened. The right wing has been portrayed as racist, so some right wing trolls tried to come up with something bad to accuse liberals. The pizza=pedophilia is about the wackiest thing I have ever heard, but at any rate, the fewer true examples of liberals sounding like pedophiles, the better. Disney could have drawn this out with lots more attention, so it's probably best to quietly shelve JG for now, and give less of a platform about it.
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Post by ellie on Aug 1, 2018 7:48:11 GMT
I’m totally in favour of consistent policies on what actions are deemed to be a fireable offence. I just don’t think those policies should be decided on the basis of the level of social media outrage. As we all know many posters on social media don’t see not having full (or frequently any) knowledge of a situation as an impediment to forming a definitive opinion.
Maybe I’m old fashioned but I still believe that before making a decision that will have a major impact on someone’s life it would be nice to have examined the full facts properly rather than be guided by the #0toOutrage3seconds mob.
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