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Post by onebluestocking on Aug 1, 2018 12:37:01 GMT
I agree! So when trolls make random celebrity accusations, each will need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. But the facts in JG's situation aren't in dispute, are they? He had a job in the past writing offensive jokes for shock value-type movies; he tweeted many of those jokes; now he is employed by a conservative company specializing in entertainment for children and teens; the tweets were dug up by right-wing trolls causing trouble; the company didn't want the trouble and acted accordingly.
And to be clear, the "jokes" in question include such gems as "Just made a joke about ass-raping my friend while she was asleep" and "The Expendables was so manly, I fucked the shit out of the little pussy boy next to me" among many others. So I'm not sure why the guy has inspired such passionate defense beyond college boys who like this kind of humor; if a right-winger had tweeted them, I'm sure the response would be very different. As a liberal myself, I am mainly just annoyed that we have been painted with this very nasty brush, and then promptly doubled down on that instead of distancing ourselves, with endless articles and online commentary supporting behavior we would never tolerate from a conservative.
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Post by MagdaFR on Aug 1, 2018 12:40:12 GMT
I’m totally in favour of consistent policies on what actions are deemed to be a fireable offence. I just don’t think those policies should be decided on the basis of the level of social media outrage. As we all know many posters on social media don’t see not having full (or frequently any) knowledge of a situation as an impediment to forming a definitive opinion. Maybe I’m old fashioned but I still believe that before making a decision that will have a major impact on someone’s life it would be nice to have examined the full facts properly rather than be guided by the #0toOutrage3seconds mob. I still think there was an agreement between Disney and Gunn on what would happen if the tweets resurfaced. That's why they moved so swiftly. I generally agree with onebluestocking. I've been thinking the same. Why some offences are immediately discarded, like Gunn's, and other's are carved in stone no matter how long ago they were commited? During the Oscar campaign what Gary Oldman said defending Mel Gibson: was used to try to stop him from winning the Oscar. Yes, not all of us said that kind of thing and not all of us ever did a joke about having sex with kids or sexist comments like Gunn did. I think Gary Oldman was generally right on one thing: We're all fucking hypocrites.
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Post by sgev1977 on Aug 1, 2018 13:26:24 GMT
I think the practice of firing people because an angry mob of social media say so should have been stopped years ago. In the case of James Gunn there is a coordinated efford by right wing extremists behind it which make the thing slightly more sinester than just a bunch of easily scandalized SJ activists but in the personal level it is equally damaging and again it should have been stopped before extremists exploited it. Something that would have happened sooner of later. I think liberals aren't necessarily sounding like pedophiles, I would dare to say that extremists are cherry picking jokes, phrases, sketches, etc. I doubt all the delated tweets by Gunn were about the theme. I imagine he wrote a lot of edgy offensive jokes about other stuff at the time and he just delated tweets in group probably without even read them (who would have the time to read the number of tweets these people are saying he delated in a hurry!) and these people searched for the ones that included certain words and phrases. One of the screen captures with the jokes of one of the comedians attacked after the Gunn affair actually included tweets in which he was talking about pizza! Not kids or even dirty jokes, just pizza! They are accusing liberals of the worst thing they could imagine and then searching for things out of context to confirm they are guilty of that. Gunn and other people who used to do edgy stuff are the easiest targets. Yesterday, I saw a bunch of Marvel fans on Twitter congratulating their idols for supposedly unfollow James Gunn and I thought it was awful! Apparently Tom Hiddleston was a hero for not using Twitter in a long time and suddenly login just to unfollow Gunn! I understand why a publicist would tell a movie star to do something like that but there is nothing brave in that! Maybe, just maybe being so discreetly complacent with the mob and the powerful (Disney) is cowardice not bravery. And again, I understand why someone would not want to put in risk a job especially for tasteless jokes by someone you probably aren't even friend! I didn't find shocking that big names unfollowed him because they are scare of losing their jobs or tainting their names, I was shocked with the fans attitude. They sounded Stanlinist to me! "My fave is soooo unproblematic. We stan the right guy" Really?! Someone was even posting screen captures of the Marvel actors on Twitter who still follow Gunn trying to make them to stop! Harrasing them to stop them to have a social media relationship with him! These were the left wing kids, of course! Not very smart just part of the mob! The turn of events happened when Don Cheadle, one of the "heroic" actors, refuted them, Probably he isn't following Gunn because he never did. Maybe that's the case with the others, too. But hey, their fave is ideologically pure! (Helping the extreme right wing trolls but who cares for those details!) So no human! EDITED: Chris Evans also refuted his "stans" Note the commenters pressing him to think like them. If not, he is "cancelled"
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Post by sgev1977 on Aug 1, 2018 13:58:34 GMT
I agree! So when trolls make random celebrity accusations, each will need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. But the facts in JG's situation aren't in dispute, are they? He had a job in the past writing offensive jokes for shock value-type movies; he tweeted many of those jokes; now he is employed by a conservative company specializing in entertainment for children and teens; the tweets were dug up by right-wing trolls causing trouble; the company didn't want the trouble and acted accordingly. And to be clear, the "jokes" in question include such gems as "Just made a joke about ass-raping my friend while she was asleep" and "The Expendables was so manly, I fucked the shit out of the little pussy boy next to me" among many others. So I'm not sure why the guy has inspired such passionate defense beyond college boys who like this kind of humor; if a right-winger had tweeted them, I'm sure the response would be very different. As a liberal myself, I am mainly just annoyed that we have been painted with this very nasty brush, and then promptly doubled down on that instead of distancing ourselves, with endless articles and online commentary supporting behavior we would never tolerate from a conservative. Those are very shocking jokes but they aren't different to what South Park or Family Guy used to air at the time. They aren't different to what comedians and actors said in The Aristocrats nor different to old tweets by Sarah Silverman (who will soon promote a new Disney film) or Patton Oswalt (who played a loved Disnery character). They all wrote nasty jokes but there aren't proof they are actual pedophiles so why not defend them from those accusations? The worst accusation that couls exist! We can't ignore who is behind this and what was the objective of the campaign against him. Again it's not necessarily just about Gunn. They are now threatening other liberal celebrities like Spielberg and Hanks, who I'm sure will be alright but Metalsa is a Mexican company. What if some crazy guy try to do the same they did with the pizzeria? I kind of panicked when I read that new conspiracy theory. My brother in law works for ANOTHER Mexican multinational and he is right now in the USA. What if they decided ALL Mexican companies or ALL Mexicans are monsters who abuse childrens? They aren't very far away! They aren't far away to consider ALL liberals pedophiles. Should we distance ourselves then? Maybe liberals should had learned to tolerate stupid jokes by Conservatives (and not Conservatives, because most victims of angry social media mobs weren't even Conservatives to begin with but other liberals). I think liberals should had understood which were the important battles and which weren't. Again I think they actually helped to create the monster.
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Post by ellie on Aug 1, 2018 14:04:56 GMT
I can only give my personal opinion and I have always been uncomfortable with trial via social media regardless of the political stance of the “accused.”. It all smacks a little too much of “The Crucible.” I consider myself to be pretty left wing and liberal and, to me, the day that social media comment gets to replace due HR and Legal Process is the day democracy begins to die. And if liberals don’t fight to maintain democracy who will?
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Post by queenzod on Aug 1, 2018 18:35:49 GMT
Ive always assumed Twitter is a Schrodinger situation. Everything is and isn’t true until proven otherwise. Mostly, it’s a bunch of children screaming “that isn’t fair!” Interspersed with some great funny stuff, pictures of BC, and SCIENCE. Oh, and Donald Trump screaming loudest of all. 🙄
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Post by Hannah Lee on Aug 18, 2018 13:44:04 GMT
I’m still not sure what I think about Disney’s decision.
The tweets were offensive, yes. But Gunn’s apologized a while ago, doesn’t post things like that recently. Should people always be judged by the worst thing they’ve ever done? I guess I’d say it depends... though I can see that leads to double standards in some people’s eyes.
But RE Disney, they HAD to have known about those tweets years ago. It seems disingenuous they were OK with Gunn until an online mob made noise. Also, the there’s the thing that got me thinking about this again today -
I heard a cover of Zip-A-Dee -Do -Dah on the radio today, which got me thinking about Song of the South, which I’d seen as a kid. Which got me googling about Song of the South to see if it was as offensive as I thought it was once I thought about it as an adult. And it was. And it’s not a matter of it being a product of its time, because there were protests about it when it was first released, and again when it was re-released in theaters in the 70s/80s and Disney even rereleased it outside the US in the 2000’s so it was still trying to profit from it even then.
So I’m not sure Disney has any moral high ground to condemn someone for putting out offensive content in the past.
Especially because while Gunn admitted his mistakes and apologized, Disney’s never really addressed the issue, instead just shelving the film and not releasing it for home viewing.
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Post by onebluestocking on Oct 11, 2018 3:17:12 GMT
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Post by sgev1977 on Oct 11, 2018 11:31:50 GMT
It was informed a few month ago that studios were fighting for him, including WB and their superheroes wing.
I never thought Disney action would had a long repercussion for him. The main issue is the precedent. They fired someone because an extremist right wing conspiracy theorist group were angry with his left wing opinions so they accused him of a disgusting crime based in a few bad jokes from years ago. Now, the other precedent is the Internet left wing “activists” trying to convince big companies of firing people based in their political opinions but yes, Disney listened to the extremist involve in Pizzagate and fired a major director! Someone like him now have that power!
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Post by mllemass on Oct 11, 2018 11:43:36 GMT
At least he won’t be returning to Disney. I just hope Margot Robbie has nothing to do with this movie.
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