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Post by ellie on Jul 22, 2018 20:03:56 GMT
Sorry, I don't get the pedo jokes either. Also, free speech goes both ways. I may say whatever I think about what you (general you) write. Of course the right is very hypocrite, as always. And so is Disney but, as a family oriented company, is understandable that they terminated Gunn's contract. The Gunn's apology letter from 2012 was about the way he spoke about women characters, racist and homophobic comments. One of them was about how easy would be to fuck one of them because she was a single mother, another one was how some lesbian character could be turn if she was fucked by Stark. The pedo jokes were not mentioned. I really don't care one way or the other for JG. I think people who write that kind of jokes or laugh at them are mysoginists, racist, homophobic inside. Gunn's followers are also hypocrite, if the jokes made by Gunn came from the right or somebody they didn't like they'd be saying the same things the right is saying now about Gunn. Imagine BC saying that kind of joke. I totally agree with your point on people’s level of outrage being influenced by whether or not they like the person or their politics. Which is exactly why I’m wary of the current trend of trial via social media because all social media outrage tends to have an underlying agenda involved. So I prefer objective judgement based on the principles of due process to be implemented rather than making decisions based on the level of shrieking on Twitter. That said I had never heard of James Gunn until this story cropped up. But from what I’ve read his jokes were intended to be provocative but there is no evidence he held those views personally. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. But I think a proper investigation should be carried out by Disney rather than the organisation sacking him because of a Twitter storm.
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Post by mllemass on Jul 22, 2018 20:39:35 GMT
Disney doesn’t have to do an investigation. They have the right to hire or fire anyone they want, just like any other workplace. Due process is for the court system. Even one of those disgusting tweets was enough for me to decide about him.
In any case, I don’t think he needs to worry too much about his career. The vast majority of twitter comments support him. Many are saying that his tweets were perfectly fine and he should never have apologized for them. I certainly hope the employers of his supporters don’t find out about what they’re saying.This whole thing may cause a chain reaction of firings!
I find it interesting that so many people are saying that we all have something in our past that we regret doing, so who are we to judge? But we’re not talking about someone who shoplifted as a teenager and doesn’t want anyone finding out - this was a grown man who said things publicly not that long ago. The “he was young and stupid” defense just doesn’t apply here.
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Post by sgev1977 on Jul 22, 2018 20:42:58 GMT
Here is an article about the guy behind the firing. This was orchestrated and it’s not the first time. He usually attack journalists: www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-cernovich-james-gunn-fired_us_5b5265cce4b0fd5c73c570acOf course, free speech go both ways and that’s why I said the so called SJW people helped with this. If we wouldn’t live in an outrage culture people like this guy couldn’t manipulate things. Those jokes were awful but they also had a context (He was doing extremist movies then that used shock humor. Again you can hate it but it’s not a crime and that kind of humor exist and was very popular then. Maybe Disney shouldn’t had hired him but that’s another issue. He didn’t do offensive tweets meanwhile working with then). Here is an example from the article: I saw another on Twitter early today. Patton Oswalt did a wonderful thing a few years ago. He wanted to show how judging words/tweets without context as the PC people were doing it was dangerous making a very liberal diatribe in various tweets but if you read just one of them it seemed he was saying very offensive things. Well, one of the alt-right trolls named in that articles is using a few of those tweets (without context) to claim he is....of course, a pedophile! It’s them the ones who are obsessed with pedophilia!
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Post by sgev1977 on Jul 22, 2018 20:51:32 GMT
I find it interesting that so many people are saying that we all have something in our past that we regret doing, so who are we to judge? But we’re not talking about someone who shoplifted as a teenager and doesn’t want anyone finding out - this was a grown man who said things publicly not that long ago. The “he was young and stupid” defense just doesn’t apply here. Shoplifting is a crime, mllemass. Bad jokes are not. Have you seen South Park? Family Guy? A Troma film? Or those comedy stand up recordings? I’m not a fan of the humor but I have seen a few of them and it’s surprising to me how many people seem not to be familiar which to me is very common English speaking comedians style.
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Post by ellie on Jul 22, 2018 20:57:09 GMT
Disney doesn’t have to do an investigation. They have the right to hire or fire anyone they want, just like any other workplace. Due process is for the court system. Even one of those disgusting tweets was enough for me to decide about him. In any case, I don’t think he needs to worry too much about his career. The vast majority of twitter comments support him. Many are saying that his tweets were perfectly fine and he should never have apologized for them. I certainly hope the employers of his supporters don’t find out about what they’re saying.This whole thing may cause a chain reaction of firings! I find it interesting that so many people are saying that we all have something in our past that we regret doing, so who are we to judge? But we’re not talking about someone who shoplifted as a teenager and doesn’t want anyone finding out - this was a grown man who said things publicly not that long ago. The “he was young and stupid” defense just doesn’t apply here. There are such things as employee rights and HR procedures. Reputable organisations do not hire and fire on the basis of a Twitter storm. They do their own investigations. Like I said I don’t know anything about Gunn. He may very well be despicable but I would just prefer that fact were not decided via social media. Guilt or innocence should not be decided by public vote
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Post by mllemass on Jul 22, 2018 21:01:14 GMT
Yes, I know that shoplifting is a crime. I mentioned it as something that shouldn’t be held against a person years later. I don’t know about the rest of the world, but where I live the criminal records of minors don’t follow them into adulthood. You’re allowed to have a fresh start without anyone finding out what you did as a teenager.
James Gunn will come out of this just fine. Apparently there is a huge audience out there for his kind of humour.
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Post by ellie on Jul 22, 2018 21:08:47 GMT
Yes, I know that shoplifting is a crime. I mentioned it as something that shouldn’t be held against a person years later. I don’t know about the rest of the world, but where I live the criminal records of minors don’t follow them into adulthood. You’re allowed to have a fresh start without anyone finding out what you did as a teenager. James Gunn will come out of this just fine. Apparently there is a huge audience out there for his kind of humour. Whether or not he comes out fine is kind of beside the point though isn’t it?
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Post by sgev1977 on Jul 22, 2018 21:17:44 GMT
I know Gunn will be alright. Although TBF it’s not “his kind of humor” anymore and as someone said that’s the sad part with the PC people judging him: there is not room for change. If you said something wrong years ago it will followed forever no matter what. My worry is not for him but the situation. Extremist right wing conspiracy theorists just made that the biggest entertainment company in the world fired one of their top directors because they got offended, not with the jokes, but with him criticizing the government. It’s very scary! Here is someone commenting the campaign against Patton Oswald: I remember I laughed of those so called SJW kids screaming at him when he originally posted it. I’m not laughing now! I really think these people is very dangerous!
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Post by mllemass on Jul 22, 2018 21:24:19 GMT
I’m going to assume that Disney has conducted their own investigation. Why wouldn’t they?
I agree that employees have rights, but that’s only as long as they’re employees. They don’t have any rights once they’re fired. I learned a lot about this a few years ago in the job I had at the time. I know things work differently in different parts of the world, but here, unless you’re in a union, you can be fired without notice and for any reason. If your employer has a reason (just cause) for firing you, they can just let you go. But if there is no reason (e.g. they just don’t like you), they have to give you severance pay. The longer you’ve worked there, the more they have to pay you to get rid of you. If you’re in a union, there are specific procedures to follow before you can be fired, and it’s a lot harder.
Years ago, the mayor of the city I live in was caught embezzling from the city. He was fired. He sued the city because he had a gambling problem and his employer (the city) was obligated to help him with his gambling addiction illness. He then sued the casino where he did his gambling and blamed them for not stopping him from betting so much money. Another city employee, the head of a department, was also caught embezzling from the city and was fired. She also sued because of her shopping addiction illness. This is the world we’re living in now!
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Post by mllemass on Jul 22, 2018 21:35:08 GMT
I see your point, and you’re right. In this age of over-sharing and posting every minute of your life online for the world to see, it’s inevitable that there will be a permanent record of it for people to dig up. Part of me is glad that we can expose rotten people for what they really are, but part of me is also disturbed by it. I just don’t want to know that much about people!
Wait - wasn’t this a Black Mirror episode??
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